Xojo 2020-2021 Quality improvement initiative

A small group has been working out some ideas that need to be presented to all of you and solicit your feedback, contributions and modifications. We intend to use it build consensus on exactly what needs to be done to fix Xojo for the professional customer, and what would steps could be used compel Xojo Inc. to actually accomplish that.

Out of respect for your time, we wanted to present something meaningful, substantial and worthy of asking for your efforts and support. Its still incomplete, but it is a good start and much more is being edited right now. This is simply the beginning stages of the plan as this demands and requires the active input and support of all of you to be both useful and validated. The remedy specification draft is currently under way and will be up soon.

Fixing Xojo is an entirely obtainable goal; the overnight fix of a 10 year old bug after some moderate backlash is clear evidence of this. If you folks are ready to move forward then please see attached, read carefully and then offer any constructive comments, modifications, contributions and ideas you have.

We need to offer specifications, options, solutions and ultimatums not only complaints.

Thank you for your time and attention.

Please see attached, I cant post PDF or word docs via the uploader, so jpg it is for now.










No offense… But just after reading the first paragraph… I can tell you that in my opinion, Geoff and/or anyone else on the Xojo staff won’t read any more than that (if even that).

The very use of words like “demand”, “threat” , “legal” and “ultimatum” will terminate what little interest I expect they will have in the first place.

Geoff possesses an ego that is on par with Trump… And he has already said (paraphrase) “Don’t tell me how to run my company” … He denies of course ever doing so, but myself as well as others read the posting where it occurred (a posting of course which has convientely vanished).

Xojo, Inc. and it staff and management created a product, they sell that product, they maintain full control over its design and its content, they decide if they wish to listen to the customers (usually not), or decide that THEY know what is best for them (usually the case).

You, and previously myself and others are or were those customers. The only thing we have power over is to buy, or not to buy the product based on the quality as it affects our needs. If “we” feel there are issues with the product, we can attempt (and have done so) to communicate those issues to Xojo (see above comment about listening).

So ultimately the only way you can have any power over Xojo and the issues and attitude they suffer from is to without your hard earned cash, and possibly find an alternative development platform. Presenting a manifest such as you are proposing will (in my opinion) have no positive effect, and may in fact do the exact opposite.

I commend you for your effort, but sadly feel it was hours of time wasted on your part.

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Its probably already been read by someone at Xojo Inc since they frequently read the posts on this forum without logging in

Sadly I have to concur with Dave given how this is worded
I honestly think it will be rejected and we’ll all still be seeking “something else”

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Thanks Dave.

So ultimately the only way you can have any power over Xojo and the issues and attitude they suffer from is to without your hard earned cash

I completely disagree. Xojo Inc. seems to place a very high priority on maintaining their outward public appearances. They follow us around on comment sections and post official rebuttals to critical comments. That is not the behavior of confidence and a solid foundation. This is an organization that is quite desperately trying to hold together appearances and maintain their reputation, such as it is.

This is all the leverage you need to force them to act.

Lets say while I have little confidence Xojo will listen I wont say “Do not do this”
If you try & get a lot of signatures on such a petition & they do something its a win
If they do nothing then its no different than the current situation

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Hi Norman,

I honestly think it will be rejected

This is not for them to approve or reject. This is going to be forced on them and their agreement and approval is not required, only their compliance.

If they refuse to fix Xojo, deliberately knowing what state they have driven it into, and that professional customers are on the line, then there should be consequences to their reputation. Incompetence or fraud should not be rewarded or allowed.

Sorry… They will not be “forced”… there are egos involved , huge ones… and they don’t, won’t see any consequences, as long as there are still users who will drink the kool-aid, Geoff won’t care… Again, like Trump… he refuses to see reality… There are only two ways to defeat what may or may not be “incompetence and fraud”, and that is to deny them a revenue stream, and/or take legal action… Personally I believe they are in violation of at least 3 sections of the Texas Consumer Laws… But I’m not a lawyer, and this is only my opinion based on what I have seen, heard and read.

I personally have already “voted” and will not be giving Xojo,Inc another penny of my money… And have already begun working on what I will be using to replace it with. Fortunately for me, I don’t have to worry about using Xojo to make a living…

I think you are being naive, but as Norman said… nothing ventured nothing gained… but I will make sure there is always a seat for you in the “1000 Year Club”, just in case :slight_smile:

I agree that you seriously overestimate the power you may be able to wield, especially given that Apple is adding a new platform. So anyone wanting to support that platform using Xojo will HAVE TO upgrade their license - even those who look for or are moving to other tools as they still have customers they need to support until the transition is done (if ever).

If Xojo is smart then they’ll concentrate on bug fixes and publish those with the new platform. A less buggy version that gets a good reception would equate to a fresh start on which they may be able to build - but only if they actually put quality first again and not half-baked features for a PR driven revenue stream …

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I got to the end of the first line.
regardless of how the document was written or presented 10 words might be all the attention it would get.

I was writing reply and then thought, what’s the point, why waste more bytes, I don’t really care if they change or not, also starting to not to be bothered if there still is a company, won’t change my situation, I have 19r11 and that’s very likely to be where it stays until the bytes no longer run in a machine.

and they don’t, won’t see any consequences, as long as there are still users who will drink the kool-aid

That is literally the weapon that will be put to their heads until they relent, or expire gracefully.

No business can survive with a massive black mark of shame painted across its back, no matter how much they want to live in their own dimension. The real laws of physics still apply equally, whether you like or agree with it or not. Business needs income, income is dependent on customer traffic, customer traffic is beholden to reputation.

The real laws of economics and statistics do as well … but if you can afford to buy $500,000 of Facebook ads, then who knows, you might be on to something … :roll_eyes:

Exactly the point I was trying to make… .if the company reputation (ie quality of product) doesn’t meet you goals… Don’t buy it… the less people who buy it the less revenue, and either they change or perish…

but if you can afford to buy $500,000 of Facebook ads, then who knows, you might be on to something

Or the forwarding of this and related material to a few, well planned YouTube personalities with extremely large audiences who are always looking for new material on the little guy getting the shaft. Corporate bad behavior is a hot topic that generates millions of subscribers, just ask Rossmann Repair Group.

Publicity for this sort of thing is free, for the offensive team that is.

Exactly the point I was trying to make… .if the company reputation (ie quality of product) doesn’t meet you goals… Don’t buy it… the less people who buy it the less revenue, and either they change or perish…

No, the time for being passive is over. Deliberate action to force change or bring them to account publicly is indicated. They need to stop taking advantage of peoples apathy and laziness, and feel their asses pressed against the wall.

well good luck… I think your efforts will be wasted… but I’m not going to waste any more of my time… a 12 page “demand note” will have zero affect, and could cause a libel suit if you are not extremely careful… but thats on you…

as of now… I’m out of this conversation…

not sure where you get “passive”, but thats fine… I had to EARN my 1000 year suspension :slight_smile:

but I’m not going to waste any more of my time

Ok, fair enough. There were political discussions here taking up so much time and energy that we could have orbited a satellite by now, much less driven Xojo Inc into action. So hopefully there are a few among us who still feel that incompetence or deliberate fraud should not be rewarded, and that everybody deserves a second chance to make good on their debts.

I do thank you for your input, none the less.

get a lot of signatures on such a petition

I understand your reservations Norman,

Its not a petition, its a list of demands, that will be supported by testimony and evidence, combined with real world marketplace consequences if its ignored. petitions and begging was last cycle, this time they will need to work overtime to keep up with the bad press if they dont stop delivering garbage and ripping people off. Entrenched powers never willingly give up their gravy train and powerful position, they must have all other options closed off to compel them to do so.

You do know Saddam, Qaddafi, Bin Laden, Ceausescu, Hitler, Mussolini and the entire Soviet Politburo felt pretty secure and invincible too. And to all outward appearances they were solid as a rock, until they suddenly they were not.

Never underestimate the power of many (rightfully) pissed off people united in common cause.

And now you are entering “conspiracy to …” territory and open yourself up to a law suit … not what a “revolution” that wants to succeed needs …

You sound more and more like those revolutionaries who’s ambition widely exceeded their capabilities … “Politburo” & Co were not the only ones overestimating themselves … failed revolutionaries just rarely make the history books, but they massively outnumber the successful ones …

Only if it is a BIG corporation, otherwise, no one will be interested in a small company they never heard of.

It won’t happen with such a small topic.

Again, the same thing, doubtfull to gain any momentum with a small company that almost none has heard of…

This has being true for many years and things has only changed for the worst. Many pros leaving, comunity not growing, languaje having no relevance at all on any ranking.

Xojo had a real advantage for many years, the cross platform, and the POOR sigthed direction of the company couldnt use that to be a big player. Allways blaming others for their errors.

So, NO, it will not force anything.

They live in a fantasy, their desitions had keept the tool in a irrelevant state for the programing world for decades but they insist that they know best :expressionless:

And now you are entering “conspiracy to …” territory and open yourself up to a law suit

Conspiracy to what? Expose a fraud, protect the public and marketplace from harm, exercise freedom of speech about demonstrable facts of negligence or malfeasance or seek a fair resolution when all traditional options are ignored? Under what jurisdiction? If that was actually viable then “cancel culture” and corporate backlash would not exist.

Its only libel when its false and has no foundation in truth, otherwise its protected opinion, of one or many when organized.

Fucking coward, you go live in chains then, and stay out of the way.