Will Web 2.0 Be Worth The Wait?

I’m guessing that we’ll see at least another preview of Xojo’s Web 2.0 offering at the XDC event next month. As someone who has never found the Web framework of any use (I prefer to use PHP and Laravel) I’m anxious as to what the second iteration will be like.

Do people have high expectations?

I spoke to Greg O’Lone at the Miami XDCast year and he certainly seemed pretty proud of it back then so I’m hopeful it’ll be a significant improvement.

There are folks who are VERY anxious and have extremely high hopes for it
See https://forum.xojo.com/58352-xojo-web-framework-2-0

Personally I dont need or use it with what I’m doing right now so I really do not care one way or the other

But I think Hal’s comments about being cautiously optimistic may prove to be the most realistic
Getting Web 2.0 out and in peoples hands will then begin the bug fix cycle and we’ll see how they keep up with those folks run into
For iOS and Web that has been the downfall (sadly)

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If you only know Xojo, it’ll be worth the wait. If you have other tools at your disposal, I’m not sure.

I’m deep enough into PHP where I’m not sure if it’s worth the wait. I REALLY wish I didn’t wait as long as I did because I’m at the point where I now have a nice framework that somewhat matches how I develop in Xojo.

What I’ve learned since moving to PHP is that it’s fast, it works, and it’s essentially bug free. I can’t say that of Xojo where getting bugs fixed is a chore.

I’ve also learned how much I like vars that are NOT typed and appreciate not having to recompile all the time.

Someday I hope to find a way to run PHP apps locally as Desktop and Mobile apps for offline use. :slight_smile:

Hi @HalGumbert and welcome! Have you seen this plugin from Christian? Not sure how useful it is but you can run PHP from within Xojo.

Whilst there are tonnes of tools out there for web development (I also prefer PHP/JS and Laravel to Xojo) I’m crossing my fingers that Xojo’s Web 2.0 is a significant improvement over their current offering that will allow me to reuse a lot of the code I already have and am familiar with rather than reinventing / porting my code to PHP.

The ability to create a web app (not a simple website) using the layout editor we have for desktop apps would be great.

Tim Dietrich and I looked into using MBS PHP to create a PHP server. If I recall, there were some issues using it like cookies and session vars not surviving across multiple calls. I did use the heck out of MBS PHP to convert user entered dates, time, and timestamps to SQL since the Xojo Date Class would crash or trigger exceptions if someone entered garbage.

I do love being able to create a Xojo Standalone Web App for portability.

One thing to think about going forward with Xojo Web 2.0 and reusing your code library is that you’ll need to updated your code library as some point to API 2.0. That essentially means rewriting your code library since refactoring to 0 based indexes is tricky.

I’d wanted to go forward with Web 2.0 as well, but the multi year delay helped me to realize how frustrated I’ve been with all the Xojo disfunction. I just don’t know when or if Xojo will fix bugs and keep updating Web 2.0 based on past performance of Web 1.0 and iOS.

I’ve been developing in PHP like it was in layout editor where I have fixed width cards and column based content in the cards, although it’s all in code. So I worry about what Brock had to say: https://forum.xojo.com/conversation/post/474252

In short: No.

Who have time to wait about something ?

The Beatles‘ Let it Be was recorded in 1969, released as is in 1970 and maybe in this eptember, we will get a brand new version. 51 years later… Ouch, the wait was … long ? interminable !

the three areas I use Xojo for is Windows Desktop, Console, and Web App. Given that I have a somewhat large web app project that also integrates with Graffiti controls, I have mix feelings on the amount of effort to move things over. And then the question comes up, should I do the move until after the 3rd release? If they drop R1 today, it might be a year before I consider moving over to it.

Moving to Web 2.0 initially is likely to have bumps and warts
So plan you’re moves carefully

The other open question is how Web 2.0 is going to impact Grafitti etc since it sounds like there will be a lot of changes that will affect them
SO you may need to hold off anyway just until the dust from the initial release settles

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great points norm. I guess if there is a silver lining here, Anthony is MVP and has exposure to R1 which should give him a head start on needs to change for graffiti.

In the meantime, my current web project is build using 2018 r4. Decided against moving to 2019 r3 due to 2020 r1 changes.

2019r3.1 isnt bad - I use it sparingly on one clients project. On Windows.
Not on macOS as I find it a lot slower than 2019r1.1 on the same machine in dark mode :frowning:
But we’re also not using most of API 2 as this is a code base that originated about a decade ago so theres just no way we could update it except bit by bit
We tried updating a few lines at a time but thats a mess since now you have some 0 based indexing some 1 based and … blech ! So we’ve opted for converting whole methods at a time when we need to. We have bumped into some issues where the API stuff works and the API 2 doesnt. We report those, revert the code to API1 and move on.

So how things are going to shake out with Web 2.0 I dont know
Anthony being on the early testing should help with him being able to move stuff but he does have a big pile of code to move - so we’ll see how fast that occurs
And, some may not be required

We’ll have to see how well “porting” an app from Web 1.0 to 2.0 works
Make lots of backups

It’s possible Rich that 2.0 brings controls to the table that mean you can do away with Graffiti.

you might be right rod, definitely something I would want to test out of the box. What would be weighing on my mind is how much work that would be to do. Plus, I have been extremely happy with Anthony’s support model and response to bug fixes and workarounds when needed.

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This is certainly possible and we wont know until we see a release