Valiant effort … so points for trying
Sorry, dyslexic here… what does “unlock the build facility” mean?
I would say its more venting… ever stubbed your toe?
We ALL already did. Or do you think anybody here did not pay for the version they are using?
And if Xojo wants more money from us then they need to improve their offering in meaningful ways and not just make semantic changes that makes Xojo superficially more similar to other languages but are detrimental to long-term users. That’s not “playing to your strengths”, that’s “accommodating your weaknesses”.
The best example is that they renamed themselves - what for? Why not advertise it as an easy to learn modern fully object-orientated BASIC that combines the easy to understand vocabulary and syntax of BASIC with the modern concepts of C++? VisualBasic on steroids! Create a grid control, PDF support, decent RTF support (with pictures) - seriously, if single developers can do it as a plugin then Xojo could just have bought the solution and integrated it. Hammer that message home by showing code snippets in BASIC vs C++! Instead they tucked their tail between their legs and tried to deny they are BASIC - which comes across as deceptive and “If they themselves don’t take it seriously …”, not to mention that they lost the recognition that BASIC still had (especially from VisualBasic - and there were tens of millions of VB users looking for a new home).
Can you imagine where Xojo would be then? If they played to their strengths, made the product excellent, instead of neglecting it?
We wouldn’t have to choose between insecure or buggy when it comes to networking. Why are sockets so bad and the bugs never fixed? Why don’t they simply use CURL underneath? After all they ditched their buggy SQLite derivative for the real thing and everyone was better off.
RTF would be unusable for more than a few kB of text, we would have subscript/superscript, strikethrough, picture support, ect instead of people having to use a plugin or HTML based replacements … which brings us to bugs in the HTMLviewer.
etc etc etc
That you might run into obscure bugs as your abilities improve is expected. What is galling is that, yes, Xojo is good if you just use “the basics” … but what is included in “the basics” has become progressively smaller, and people run into serious problems now sooner rather than later. I said it since 2013, I say it again:
Basic functionality has to be rock solid.
And Xojo Inc isn’t even trying to achieve that - instead they gave us an even more buggy platforms like iOS. And Raspberry Pi. Web was half-way decent, but Web 2 and Android are so late and come at such a cost to their core business that you have to wonder “Why?” …
It looks like Ron is no longer here as his post are listed an being from anon
Doesn’t mean he (and others) won’t read the replies.
If he disabled/deleted his account, we know it was his own doing, as it has been said that isn’t a thing normally done on this forum, (unlike another I can think of )
He may have asked for his account to be deleted which is why those posts are labelled the way they are
Theres a reason the bitching and moaning happens
And why you’re bitching about us bitching
I also bitch about the ford truck I drive
There are things I hate about it
But OVERALL I really like it
When you read the posts here you’ll find the SAME thing
Things we hate - but overall we generally like the TOOL
Some HAVE tried to find alternatives and the alternatives are wanting
Thats part of the frustration
IF there were alternatives I have no doubt people would leave
Some have because what Xojo does isnt needed any more
And some have been using it for so long and have businesses built around it in a way that such a move is NOT trivial and could be a years long process. I know some that ARE undertaking exactly that move.
And if people wouldn’t know about what is going wrong then nothing would change so having a voice is important (see Black Lives Matter).
Silencing these voices is Despotism and Totalitarianism, so I’m always surprised when I hear people say “It’s Xojo’s forum, they can do what they like”. No, they can’t - because with having the power comes the responsibility. That’s why having the majority in a democracy doesn’t mean you can do whatever you want - minorities still have rights. And it’s the majority’s responsibility to look out for everyone, not just themselves. So if you have the power to control the message, then you better make sure that both sides of an argument have their say. Not doing so is an abuse of the power you have - which usually manifests itself as a feeling of unease, of “unfairness” in everyone seeing it.
In the ideal world you are of course completely correct - this product doesn’t exist in a bubble even if it’s owned by one person.
Having read though many posts on this (and the other) forum however I get the impression that personalities and egos may feature high on the problem list. But that’s just my impression on reading these posts, I may be completely wrong…
As asked in the OP, where is the focus?, it seems that none of us have a clue after all these replies to the thread.
the leaders of the product SEEM from the outside not to offer anything that is to be seen as a truly reliable path, that I am willing to stick my money into for another significant period.
in a few years when web has either been abandoned as it is now, and another new version has come along and, iOS has even the most basic functionality properly implemented then we are left with a core of mostly usable functions (in my opinion and related to how I use the product)…
Desktop (Mac great, win ok, Pi ok), console good, web1 perfectly usable with a little effort, I do not consider iOS to be a viable function for the greater number of casual or inquisitive users as it stands in the current format.
For me personally, there is no advantage to move to API2, its done absolutely nothing to improve the user experience for existing projects.
if its promise is that it makes iOS and Android viable then great, but thats going to be a 3 year period, again in my opinion and, looking at previous bug fixing and feature offerings.
For me 19r1 is the last remotely viable version of Xojo that I am going to work with, I have done my time testing stuff for bugs and hoping they will get fixed.
At least we know that 19r1 is never going to be bug fixed or updated so any work around and or plain show stopping bug can be accepted and I just code around and be happy.
I love my Xojo 19r1, but the affair with 20xyx, if its ever released this year, has gone off the rails for me and its going to need more than a bunch of flowers to ge things back on track!
so here is the interesting part for me, for my web projects I use Graffitisuite in which I need to see what Anthony’s update will look like going forward. I hate the fact that there is an abrupt conversion that will have to take place if web 2.0 is the only way forward.
I think my gripe here is, forced to switch over completely rather than ease into it. Right now, i am in limbo.
I really wanted to stick to 19r1, but the speed improvements for the designer on 2019r2 (windows at least) make me switch, even if I dont use Api 2
If you’re going to 2019r2, you may as well use the latest. You’re not obliged to use API2.
No, but you would be obliged to pay Xojo for something that isn’t worth the upgrade (at least in my opinion and in this situation)
Well OK. There is that.
ok Ivan, I have heard of slowness in the IDE, I do not see it in my Mac system or the windows version that runs in VMWare, at all, but I know it is a great concern for some and for seemingly unknown reasons.
They can be cause its consider private property and they can allow in anyone they want or throw out anyone they want
Thats not to say I agree with how they run it etc.
Just that they CAN.
There are many shareholders
Geoff is, as far as I know, the majority shareholder
I hope you mean 2019r2.1 ?