What is the final outcome of green energy?

How have you come to this conclusion ?

Oil is part of the carbon life cycle. We (humans) are made of oils and carbon. When animals and plants come to the end of their life, then our bodies decay and become food for plants. Its part of the cycle.

That’s the global cycle (though I’d add volcanos). Different parts of the cycle (sub-cycles) run on vastly different time scales.

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In my country (Netherlands) politicians have started the ‘Energy Transition’. This means:

  1. total ban on the use of natural gas (CH4). We have an enormous source of this gas in the north of our country. Every household uses this gas for cooking and heating, same with all the heavy industry. Every household must now install a heatpump combined with electric heating/cooking.

  2. building giant wind turbine parks

  3. building giant solar parks

  4. converting the car fleet to electric cars

Pumping up the CH4 gave earthquakes because of soil instability.
The situation so far: the electric grid is locked for new connections as the many private installed household solar panels give congestion and/or a shortage of energy in peak hours. The grid is not able to cope with al the new suppliers and the deliverage of electricity for cars.

Wind turbines: for every wind turbine park in sea you need a gigantic converter station to bring the fresh electricity to the grid (cost: $ 1 billion each).

All these politicians have looked away from nuclear power as not being green. So now, the ban on natural gas can’t continue, the power grid is overbooked, nuclear power has suddenly become green enough :grinning:

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One possibility of a final energy source might be a magnetic motor. If you Google magnet motor free energy, then many links appear. It is essentially a motor that creates motion from magnets only. There are lots of false claims, just not sure if it actually works.


Only if you stretch that cycle out to be millions of years though

It doesnt

perpetual motion machines are bullish*t

In my humble opinion, this happens each year on a farm. Crops are planted, grown, and harvested. Manure is placed back in the soil to replace nutrients, carbon, and inorganics. Rinse - repeat.

I have milked too many cows in my lifetime :slight_smile:

And there’s exactly 0% oil & gas produced
Thereby excluding oil & gas from that cycle as you claimed

I respectfully disagree. And I respect your opinion. :slight_smile: We will just agree to disagree - and still enjoy the coffeeshop-talk.

I never saw a cow turning into crude oil. Maybe the gas analogy works better with cows…

We used to have a pit where the cows that passed away due to some obscure problem. After the bodies degraded, there would be a layer of oil on top. We would skim the oil from the pit and use it to fuel the oil-heaters in the barn. It works quite well actually.

Edit: The pit was covered so that the microorganisms were anaerobic. Under aerobic conditions very little oil would form.

Was it oil, like what is found in the ground or liquified body fat?

I didn’t analyze it, and I would guess it was a bit of both.

This is a common oil product that is gathered from landfills (same anaerobic condition) and we would get literally truckloads of oil from landfills. The oil would be brought to a refinery and made into gasoline, diesel and other hydrocarbon products.

Edit: spelling

Manure heaps are the reason I suggested bacteria as a possible fuel of the future. The bacterial activity in a manure heap generates so much heat they have to be regularly turned over or otherwise they can spontaneously combust. Where I live on the fens there are farmers that heat their water just by putting a tank under the manure heap.

You can get oil from algae and CO2 is algae food. That’s the reasoning for my other suggestion.

I wouldn’t be so keen on other forms of bio diesel though because putting energy markets into competition with food markets would be a huge mistake.

Agreed, this is the issue that we are having by using corn to make ethanol.

The economics for 2 truckloads of crude oil produced from a landfill are:
Each tridem truck holds about 42 m3 (~264 bbl).
Price for each crude load is about 1/2 of market value - lets say the price of oil is $100.00/bbl for easy numbers.

264 bbl x $50/bbl = $13,200 revenue per truckload.
2 truckloads = $26,200 of crude oil from decomposing landfill waste

The current thinking seems to be a one to one switch from a fossil fuel car to an electric powered equivalent but it should be a moment to fully reassess personal transport. Only around 2% of the energy created by a car’s engine is required to propel the driver, the rest is required because we will ride around in 1500kg metal boxes.

Part of the problem is nobody will want to travel around in something much smaller and lighter while they’re sharing the road with others who are still in their 1500kg metal boxes in case they end up squashed.

I reality we don’t have anything like the power generation capacity to do a one to one swap to electric cars and that’s before you get to the issues of multi-story car parks collapsing under their weight, etc…

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Oh certainly
but its not spontaneously turning in to O & G
otherwise farmers would be digging up the oil as well from their manure heaps - but they dont

IF you bury it and leave if for a few million years it might turn into oil, gas, coal
but none of us will be around long enough to run that experiment

And carefully contained heaps, land fills, & barns etc can emit methane gas which can be captured
However, the amount they capture is quite low
Its why me neighbour, who raise hogs, stopped
It just wasn’t economically viable because the volume even from hundred of hogs + manure & effluent wasnt adequate to do hardly anything. Certainly couldn’t heat a barn with it in the winter.

Are we talking “new crude” captured from decomposing waste ?
Or recycled oil from landfill operations ?
GFL, afaik, only mentions the second type (which is different than your claim)

EDIT changed DOGS to HOGS :man_facepalming:

You can get the oil from algae with a press, just like you would from olives.