# What is the final outcome of green energy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Other\ **Created:** [14 September 2023 14:27 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/what-is-the-final-outcome-of-green-energy/3544 "2023-09-14T14:27:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![eugenedakin](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/eugenedakin/32/3892_2.png) [@eugenedakin](https://ifnotnil.com/u/eugenedakin)\ **Post date:** [16 September 2023 15:46 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/what-is-the-final-outcome-of-green-energy/3544/81 "2023-09-16T15:46:40Z")
> [@npalardy](#): > > Right - I’m not ANY of that - therefore I am NOT crude oil in any sense that YOU cited > I’m not liquid and I dont remain liquid at atmospheric pressure etc Sorry so say (again, no offence intended), we are. Again, we agree to disagree. > [@npalardy](#): > > Feedstock to become crude oil one day _maybe_ (like dinosaurs were) > But we are NOT crude oil (using the EPA term you cited) Again, we agree to disagree - yep, we are crude oil. ---
**Author:** ![npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/npalardy/32/10_2.png) [@npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/u/npalardy)\ **Post date:** [16 September 2023 15:51 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/what-is-the-final-outcome-of-green-energy/3544/82 "2023-09-16T15:51:44Z")
> [@eugenedakin](#): > > Sorry so say (again, no offence intended), we are. Again, we agree to disagree. I’m currently typing at my computer & am “liquid” ? Not according to a dictionary > Liquid > 1 a substance that flows freely but is of constant volume, having a consistency like that of water or oil: drink plenty of liquids. I dont do that Nether do you Thats disingenuous to suggest either of us do ---
**Author:** ![eugenedakin](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/eugenedakin/32/3892_2.png) [@eugenedakin](https://ifnotnil.com/u/eugenedakin)\ **Post date:** [16 September 2023 16:03 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/what-is-the-final-outcome-of-green-energy/3544/83 "2023-09-16T16:03:56Z")
> [@npalardy](#): > > I’m currently typing at my computer & am “liquid” ? > Not according to a dictionary Yep… sorry, we are. We are composed of matter that is gas (yes we also make gas, and require gas), we are made of liquid (yes, blood flows, water, oils), heavy organics (skin, muscles), and solids (bones, etc). Crude oil is also made of these same components - light ends - gasses, liquids xylenes, toluene, which are made from DNA, heavy ends - such as paraffins asphaltenes. Sorry bud (again, we are all friends here) - we are just crude oil. ---
**Author:** ![npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/npalardy/32/10_2.png) [@npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/u/npalardy)\ **Post date:** [16 September 2023 16:08 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/what-is-the-final-outcome-of-green-energy/3544/84 "2023-09-16T16:08:45Z")
Water will flow through a sieve with a mesh you and I wont Let’s accept this - water IS a liquid. Yes ? Water can flow through a sieve unimpeded. Say we make the sieve coarsely meshed - 1CM We can pour water in it and it will run right through Now, let’s pour YOU in and … ??? Until you can you might be “composed of” water and other fluids but that doesn’t mean you ARE a liquid They are 2 vastly different things ---
**Author:** ![eugenedakin](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/eugenedakin/32/3892_2.png) [@eugenedakin](https://ifnotnil.com/u/eugenedakin)\ **Post date:** [16 September 2023 16:14 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/what-is-the-final-outcome-of-green-energy/3544/85 "2023-09-16T16:14:51Z")
> [@npalardy](#): > > Let’s accept this - water IS a liquid. Yes ? Well… its a liquid at room temperature and pressure. Is water no longer water when it is at 101C, or -1 C? Is candle wax (paraffin, or human fat) a liquid at room temperature? Mostly No. Warm it up to about 100C and its a liquid. It can go through a sieve. It has not changed chemical structure, just the melting point. The funny thing about chemistry, is that a complex organism or crude oil is not just one chemical or compound. Its a mixture (like baking a cake) of stuff. It has gas (yes, gas at room temperature), liquid at room temperature (yes, some liquids can and some can’t go through a sieve), and solids (wax, asphaltene, fats, muscle). Our bodies are a mixture of everything - crude oil is a mixture of everything. 🙂 Whatever theoretical definition that is used for crude oil will also need to be theoretically used for humans… 😉 Edit: Sorry, oversimplication can sometimes get messy 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bgrommes](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/bgrommes/32/2651_2.png) [@bgrommes](https://ifnotnil.com/u/bgrommes)\ **Post date:** [16 September 2023 16:19 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/what-is-the-final-outcome-of-green-energy/3544/86 "2023-09-16T16:19:53Z")
Oil is harmless and natural, we are in fact oil … do you seriously expect anyone to buy this hogwash? Well let me revise that, there are a few who doubtless will because too many people’s brains are mush and perhaps beyond help. If I cared enough, I’d float a “this is fine” dog in the burning house meme about now … but life is too short. ---
**Author:** ![Karen](https://ifnotnil.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@Karen](https://ifnotnil.com/u/Karen)\ **Post date:** [16 September 2023 16:28 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/what-is-the-final-outcome-of-green-energy/3544/87 "2023-09-16T16:28:16Z")
> [@eugenedakin](#): > > Sorry bud (again, we are all friends here) - we are just crude oil. I think you are missing an ingredient - degree of Entropy! 😉 BTW one time 10+ years ago I had to look at the effects of a certain process on Canadian Tar Sands . I just found some stashed in a drawer in my lab last week! -Karen ---
**Author:** ![thommcgrath](https://ifnotnil.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@thommcgrath](https://ifnotnil.com/u/thommcgrath)\ **Post date:** [16 September 2023 16:28 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/what-is-the-final-outcome-of-green-energy/3544/88 "2023-09-16T16:28:35Z")
> [@eugenedakin](#): > > Fusion is nuclear, meaning it rewrites DNA. No. Fusion is right now our “holy grail” power source. If we can figure it out - we’ve already proven it works, we “just” need to scale it up - we’re set. Byproducts of fusion are helium and tritium. Helium is inert, and tritium has a short half life. So we don’t have waste problems with fusion that we do with fission. But fusion has a lot of challenges to overcome first. ---
**Author:** ![eugenedakin](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/eugenedakin/32/3892_2.png) [@eugenedakin](https://ifnotnil.com/u/eugenedakin)\ **Post date:** [16 September 2023 16:30 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/what-is-the-final-outcome-of-green-energy/3544/89 "2023-09-16T16:30:36Z")
> [@bgrommes](#): > > Oil is harmless and natural, we are in fact oil … do you seriously expect anyone to buy this hogwash? Yep… sorry bud, thats the truth. - we are. You don’t have to believe it. I am not asking you to believe it. I don’t want to rattle your world. We are all friends here. Edit: Sorry, I disagree - oil is not harmless - natural yes, harmless no. This includes humans - harmless no, natural yes. ---
**Author:** ![eugenedakin](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/eugenedakin/32/3892_2.png) [@eugenedakin](https://ifnotnil.com/u/eugenedakin)\ **Post date:** [16 September 2023 16:33 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/what-is-the-final-outcome-of-green-energy/3544/90 "2023-09-16T16:33:49Z")
> [@thommcgrath](#): > > No. Fusion is right now our “holy grail” power source. If we can figure it out - we’ve already proven it works, we “just” need to scale it up - we’re set. Byproducts of fusion are helium and tritium. Helium is inert, and tritium has a short half life. So we don’t have waste problems with fusion that we do with fission. > > But fusion has a lot of challenges to overcome first. Yep, agreed. As far as we know - its the holy grail. Mind you, we thought the same thing about Uranium Energy and then slowly started to understand this thing called radiation. I am keeping my fingers crossed that this new energy is good for all of humanity. Not sure when we will be able to have sustainable and usable energy out of it. As long as we (humans) are working towards the final goal, then we will _eventually_ get there. It would be nice for me to see it in my lifetime, and I can be hopeful it works out well. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/npalardy/32/10_2.png) [@npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/u/npalardy)\ **Post date:** [16 September 2023 16:37 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/what-is-the-final-outcome-of-green-energy/3544/91 "2023-09-16T16:37:54Z")
Great so water at room temperature & 1 atmosphere IS a liquid Are you “liquid” under those conditions ? no Oil is a transformed combination of chemicals etc Like carbon can be coal, or diamonds Try this Hand you’re wife a lump of coal & said “enjoy your diamond” You wont have a very happy wife But you can explain to her why she’s wrong to be upset & see how it goes Can you also claim to be a tree ? Since we’re all the same stuff ? Or a flower ? Its all the same stuff ---
**Author:** ![bgrommes](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/bgrommes/32/2651_2.png) [@bgrommes](https://ifnotnil.com/u/bgrommes)\ **Post date:** [16 September 2023 16:42 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/what-is-the-final-outcome-of-green-energy/3544/92 "2023-09-16T16:42:43Z")
> [@npalardy](#): > > Hand you’re wife a lump of coal & say “enjoy your diamond” > You wont have a very happy wife Have her drink a quart of 10W40 while she’s at it, she won’t care for that either. I swear, O&G must have a highly developed Ministry of Truth. ---
**Author:** ![eugenedakin](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/eugenedakin/32/3892_2.png) [@eugenedakin](https://ifnotnil.com/u/eugenedakin)\ **Post date:** [16 September 2023 16:45 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/what-is-the-final-outcome-of-green-energy/3544/93 "2023-09-16T16:45:01Z")
> [@npalardy](#): > > Great so water at room temperature & 1 atmosphere IS a liquid > Are you “liquid” under those conditions ? > no > > Oil is a transformed combination of chemicals etc > Like carbon can be coal, or diamonds > Try this > Hand you’re wife a lump of coal & said “enjoy your diamond” > You wont have a very happy wife > But you can explain to her why she’s wrong to be upset & see how it goes > > Can you also claim to be a tree ? Since we’re all the same stuff ? > Or a flower ? > Its all the same stuff Almost everything - crude oil, humans, trees, is a mixture of gas, liquid, and solids. Some crude oil is a liquid at room temperature and 1 atmosphere, while other crude oil is not a liquid. It just depends on how many “tree’s” were in the primordial soup. Not quite claiming to be a tree. This is misinformation. Lets take something from Science Fiction. Most people are familiar with Star Trek and the teleporter. The teleporter takes a human apart bit-by-bit, chemical-by-chemical, and places the atoms and chemicals back together on a planet - of course using a LARGE amount of energy to do this. If a tree has the same ratio of carbon, oxygen, and other periodic table of elements, then you can rearrange a tree to be a human. It just matter. 🙂 LOL, my wife would rather have a diamond since the value would be much higher. Chuckle, with Canadian taxes going the way they are, a lump of coal may be worth more in the near future. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/npalardy/32/10_2.png) [@npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/u/npalardy)\ **Post date:** [16 September 2023 16:55 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/what-is-the-final-outcome-of-green-energy/3544/94 "2023-09-16T16:55:20Z")
> [@eugenedakin](#): > > Almost everything - crude oil, humans, trees, is a mixture of gas, liquid, and solids. Some crude oil is a liquid at room temperature and 1 atmosphere, while other crude oil is not a liquid. It just depends on how many “tree’s” were in the primordial soup. We’re not talking about some version of crude oil You said I’M a liquid, and by logical extension ALL humans ARE, currently, under current conditions, liquids Comparing me, under 1 atmosphere at current temps, is just flatly FALSE > [@eugenedakin](#): > > Not quite claiming to be a tree. This is misinformation. No but you DID claim I’m a liquid. And crude oil. How is this ANY different ? > [@eugenedakin](#): > > The teleporter takes a human apart bit-by-bit, chemical-by-chemical, and places the atoms and chemicals back together on a planet - of course using a LARGE amount of energy to do this. NO Star Trek transmits the DATA about the being - not its chemicals. And recomposes it “magically” at the other end Its fictional The physics are simply unworkable given how much energy it would require > [@eugenedakin](#): > > then you can rearrange a tree to be a human. It just matter. So you ARE a flower then ! _It just matter._ And if you’re not a flower youre not crude oil nor are you a liquid > [@eugenedakin](#): > > LOL, my wife would rather have a diamond since the value would be much higher. But why ? Its JUST a diamond in a different state (or something) Convince her you’re a liquid and that the coal is just as valuable The we can talk about “being crude oil” My current state is 1. I’m NOT liquid 2. I’m NOT crude oil nor is any other human being alive today ---
**Author:** ![eugenedakin](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/eugenedakin/32/3892_2.png) [@eugenedakin](https://ifnotnil.com/u/eugenedakin)\ **Post date:** [16 September 2023 17:00 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/what-is-the-final-outcome-of-green-energy/3544/95 "2023-09-16T17:00:25Z")
> [@bgrommes](#): > > Have her drink a quart of 10W40 while she’s at it, she won’t care for that either. > > I swear, O&G must have a highly developed Ministry of Truth. Yea, oversimplification gets kind-of messy - and I can understand the confusion of 10W40. Although we use oil every day, its not understood by many people on Earth. Yep, there is a version of Ministry of Truth - its called professional organizations. This is made of Professional Engineers, Chemists, Geologists and more. Heck, its so complicated that many salesman that are in the oilfield commonly have a science degree. I know you were trying to make a joke, and there seriously is Professionalism. It usually takes years to get knowledgeable - which is why years of experience is required before becoming a licensed professional. If it were easy, everyone would be doing it. ---
**Author:** ![eugenedakin](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/eugenedakin/32/3892_2.png) [@eugenedakin](https://ifnotnil.com/u/eugenedakin)\ **Post date:** [16 September 2023 17:01 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/what-is-the-final-outcome-of-green-energy/3544/96 "2023-09-16T17:01:22Z")
> [@npalardy](#): > > My current state is > > 1. I’m NOT liquid > 2. I’m NOT crude oil > nor is any other human being alive today I guess then we can talk about the existentialism of what is the definition of ‘alive’. This is a great discussion about AI and life. ---
**Author:** ![Karen](https://ifnotnil.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@Karen](https://ifnotnil.com/u/Karen)\ **Post date:** [16 September 2023 17:15 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/what-is-the-final-outcome-of-green-energy/3544/97 "2023-09-16T17:15:39Z")
> [@eugenedakin](#): > > Heck, its so complicated that many salesman that are in the oilfield commonly have a science degree. Because they can speak the language… but the knowledge fades and financial incentives tend to change people’s point of view… I doubt many (any?) go into science with the goal of becoming salesmen! -Karen ---
**Author:** ![npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/npalardy/32/10_2.png) [@npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/u/npalardy)\ **Post date:** [16 September 2023 17:18 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/what-is-the-final-outcome-of-green-energy/3544/98 "2023-09-16T17:18:55Z")
Why deflect every time the conversation gets to the point that your position becomes untenable ? > [@eugenedakin](#): > > It usually takes years to get knowledgeable - which is why years of experience is required before becoming a licensed professional. Appeal to authority is usually one of the signs that you are trying to support a position that is just untenable, or false. I truly doubt APEGGA would support “people are crude oil and liquid” ---
**Author:** ![bgrommes](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/bgrommes/32/2651_2.png) [@bgrommes](https://ifnotnil.com/u/bgrommes)\ **Post date:** [16 September 2023 17:22 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/what-is-the-final-outcome-of-green-energy/3544/99 "2023-09-16T17:22:07Z")
“A science degree” \<\> scientist In any case any actual scientist captive to a corporation is subject to having their findings ignored or distorted by the corporation’s management. And that’s being charitable. Tobacco industry “scientists” said for decades that smoking doesn’t cause lung cancer, and oil industry “scientists” said for decades that there is no climate crisis or pollution problems. And there are, ahem, still people attempting to normalize fossil fuels and minimize the climate crisis. ---
**Author:** ![eugenedakin](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/eugenedakin/32/3892_2.png) [@eugenedakin](https://ifnotnil.com/u/eugenedakin)\ **Post date:** [16 September 2023 17:27 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/what-is-the-final-outcome-of-green-energy/3544/100 "2023-09-16T17:27:33Z")
> [@npalardy](#): > > Appeal to authority is usually one of the signs that you are trying to support a position that is just untenable, or false. > > I truly doubt APEGGA would support “people are crude oil and liquid” Not trying to deflect. Just trying to come up with ways to help you (and the audience) understand. Fortunately, it is well understood that Oil & Gas professionals in APEGGA understand that people are crude oil and liquid. It it very well understood. [Previous page](https://ifnotnil.com/t/what-is-the-final-outcome-of-green-energy/3544.md?page=4) [Next page](https://ifnotnil.com/t/what-is-the-final-outcome-of-green-energy/3544.md?page=6)