I used 4D for several years too. I liked it, especially how schema changes are applied as records are accessed.
FileMaker is a similar option as 4D, but you need to see if the costs make sense. The costs are why I went with PHP.
sorry but i find PHP outdated and i recently said in fb groups to young people, that no one should learn PHP in 2021. it got me lots of comments lol
I bet. Saying things without facts will get you lots of feedback.
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i do mean not to learn PHP for students, not the place here to argue about it i guess.
just it’s because nodejs and golang are growing fast
i don’t make webapps i make apis using golang/postgres (dumped mysql like decades ago, you know religions ;))
plus i think we have a trend, which is logical to make headless cms ect.
i’m not using xojo for webapps, don’t think i ever will, there is too many js devs outthere india and all, to make cheap js stuff.
Swift full of bugs? not hardly… Perfect? no… more stable than Xojo? in my opinion hell yes…
Based on my experience, and what I have heard of others experiences with B4x, Java, Php etc… each one has advantages (and disadvantages) over Xojo… and each person has moved to a new tool, based on their own needs… But also (my opinion) is that @dalu is expecting to find the holy grail after a few minutes of playing with each tool… and we all know it takes way more than that.
i was talking of the first version of xcode supporting swift, i’m sure it got better, but still looked like beta
i’m not expecting anything, i like xojo, and like i said 4D is still in the game, plus electron is very popular. i even made an helloworld in electron, it’s cool
there are definitely many tools that cover some portion of the space that xojo tries to
and they may do it better
thats what makes xojo’s claim seductive - one tool & cover everything
but, lets be polite, it has issues fulfilling that promise 
So, you don’t even know if it have them or not and you already discaded? Wow.
Out of the box it has wey more features available than Xojo, plus accesing all the native libraries without the need of declares or complex code, you can use native code either snipets or whole libraries alongside your BASIC code. Reuse code for Android, etc, etc
Well since the “first version” was released in 2014… yeah it was very “beta” compared to today
since it has been updated 47 times (include . and double . releases)
we have gone from Swift 1.0 to currently Swift 5.4.2
Oh … and with the exception of Swift 3, the upgrades to code have been next to painless… Xcode does most of the heavy lifting for you … unlike Xojo
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if you can make your work day using window for 10 hours, B4X is a very significantly better option than xojo.
but you seem to be like me Mac user, I feel sick after a few minutes looking at, and seeing the horrible, or rather, unfamiliar shapes and size of controls, odd placement of menu items, etc etc.
B4X is significantly more able than any version of xojo, it has been for a very long time, do not let the ‘single’ guy thing put you off, he has a very good support structure and seemingly finances in place to be considered a viable professional option (as he has stated).
not something anyone could reliably profess (in my opinion PLEASE CAN SOMEONE DISAGREE WITH actual FACTS) regarding xojo.
but B4x is windows only, I cant deal with that, so all other avenue are tested.
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My short answer to this: Python and Django…
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Harvard / edX offer a Professional Certificate in Computer Science for Web Programming which features Django.
You could take about 20 Udemy courses for the cost of that Harvard one. Are there tangible advantages to it over a few Udemy courses in the areas covered, beyond the credibility of having a certificate from Harvard? I’m speaking from the p.o.v. of someone self-employed.
You could even do similar courses on iTunes University for free. It’s ALL about the certificate …
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That’s what I was thinking.
At the same time I do feel slightly drawn to it… having learned everything I know about things CS in a haphazard manner.
Recently I was explaining an issue I had with a young CS graduate and I was amazed at how quickly she grasped the issue. Now she’s a really bright person but I can’t help feeling that she’s has a far more rounded knowledge as a result of her course than I do despite being at it for far more years.
If you don’t want the certificate the two courses are free individually.
If you do want a verified certificate £224 for one from Harvard is a bargain.
If you start on the free path you still have the option of switching to verified from your edX dashboard.
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I have been using Java with IntelliJ and JFormDesigner with Windows, Mac, Linux (Ubuntu), and Raspberry Pi (need a file added to work). I am quite impressed with the Desktop programs! No bugs yet
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Welcome to my world Eugene. I have this world for desktop, mobile and web. Java is not buggier. But it’s hard to even find one.
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Well, one platform that is often underestimated is LiveCode that is truly is RAD xplat visual development with acceptable iOS/Android and HTML5 offerings (dual licence, so you can try the openSource version but really more useful if you get the ‘indy’ package). I moved to this from XOJO and haven’t looked back.
My needs are probably not many of those here - i need to create reasonably complex for use within my work environment, database access, cloud stuff, fairly complex UI, i need it to be done quickly and easily and work on mac/pc at the very least, ideally on iOS as well.
LiveCode is very different in language so many delving in it will feel quite weird for a short time, once you ‘get’ it it’s super efficient especially for managing complex data structures. And as opposed to XOJO, you can just ‘complile for iOS’ and the apps run without additional work, but benefit from a few extras to use native controls etc.
I wouldn’t recommend it if you need truly high performance - it’s definitely not the platform to build FPS games for example, although some have tried 
For most ‘usual’ needs the apps it produces are performant and dev time is minimal. I’ve been on this a year and really haven’t needed anything else; the liveCode forum is really one friendliest programming forums you’ll come across and it’s rare not to get a helpful answer and solution within a day.
The perception of the platform is wildly different from the actual value of what it provides.
Probably the biggest obstacle would be unlearning habits from other environments and going full on liveCode…
I know i’m the vast minority supporting this here, but had to be said
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