While the pro users needed to switch to another environment they would never change back. Why should thy do it. And open source? I don’t think that they will do that. This could be a game changer. But they would have no incomes anymore from that moment on. They could make the compiler open source but they have no command line compiler. They could make the frameworks open source but…
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There is not enough Xojo in the LLM’s for AI to be accurate. It still often confuses API 1.0, API 2.0, and old VB6 together which makes a mess.
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It certainly doesn’t feel like that for a while, to be honest. JetBrains software’s quality is degrading in my opinion, with regards to their IDEs. I don’t use Kotlin so I can’t say anything about this language.
But it only proves my point. Bigger dev teams don’t mean better output. It’s good management or lack thereof that decides over the fate of a product. I would assume that Xojo users are extremely tolerant and forgiving, which would give Xojo a lot of leeway to transform their product into an open ecosystem. But there’s a limit and Xojo is perhaps beyond repairability, as @TomasJ already mentioned.
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I can unequivocally say that management IS a big contributor to why Xojo is where it is today
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I am developing with Jetbrains IDE’s in Kotlin, Java (IntelliJ), C++ (Clion), C (Clion), Rust (RustRover) and Python (Pycharm) I did not have any problem with the quality of the IDE. Looks like it is so with GOLang (I have no Idea about that kind of problems cause I tested only a bit with GO but it is simply not my language (like you can see, I am in love with C++ type syntax and |≠ and also ; in it 
) So I can’t say that there is any real problem with their technologies. Also I did not find any problem with editing, highlighting or code completion for GOlang. What ever.
You may consider that Xojo is on the same stage as Jetbrians is. But let me say it so: this is another Galaxy. Not only another planet. Xojos Bug Collection looks like a black hole. It grows and grows and nothing is fixed. Our GO programmer says it works fine with GO. So I can’t see anything like you said. Nothing functional missed. May be that you have a few Ideas where others are better? Then use others. VSCode or what ever you want to.
Speaking about IDE’s I have also Netbeans and Eclipse as workbenches here running. Both are far away from the Jetbrains quality.
Noooooooooooo way I’d go back to Xojo unless Geoff wakes up or leaves.
Making the move is difficult and seems like a waste of time, but on the other side, you bask in how amazing Jetbrains IDE is. Xojo IDE is a frigging joke.
Geoff is the cause and the only way to fix things is for him to leave Xojo. But he won’t since he knows better than the Pros that tried over and over to help.
That makes Xojo a dead end unless you need simple web viewer type apps…
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Also, you can see Xojo’s decline everywhere.
Reddit, X, Bluesky, LinkedIn… Just a deadzone.
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How ever you try to call it. It will not be a functional IDE. You can put a donkey a jacket on. But…it is still a donkey. It is a good Idea for something but it is not a good bug management. And the changes of the API…man
Imo Xojo IDE was a big step backwards from RealStudio IDE.
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Yup. Still lacks functionality that was in Real Studio. IIRC what we got was the 3rd implementation and it was considerably ‘better’ than the first two. Here we are 10+ years later and it still has every day issues related to focus. The Navigator is a PITA for large projects and the Inspector is still too mouse dependent.
In retrospect the Xojo IDE was the beginning of the long downward spiral.
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If I understood correct they begin programming Xojo IDE in Xojo instead of C++ because of soo many bugs and errors…
You have no idea how true that is
But the Xojo IDE was NEW and SHINY & looked a lot like CODA, that cool new web editor so Xojo had to be new & cool & shiny & …
Chasing shiny baubles to try & grow is the cause of a lot of their issues
But they are stretched beyond their capability
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That started in 2006ish with the NEW IDE that was written in REALbasic
The real motivation was so that the company developers would be using the same product as the users and so should experience many of the same issues
That SORT OF holds true
I can say that many issues never got released as we fixed them in the DESKTOP IDE before shipping
But there were lots of things that couldn’t & wouldnt experience this
REPORTS - nothing in Xojo uses them so …
iOS - no critical tools or apps using it for Xojo to find the bugs (iOS got a lot better when Greg & I wrote the XDC app for XDC and we found issues & they got fixed)
Android is the same
Web same
Which is why Desktop is better than most other targets
Xojo DOESNT rely on them in any way shape or form so they make simple demo apps - CatsUp ! or “Hello World” type apps to say “see how well it works !”
They almost need the IDE on those other platforms to really push them hard in their own work so they see the shortcomings before they ship to customers
What ever they are doing, they should do a better jon when testing for the release and use their own software in production for all the stuffs they do. Is Xojo Website a Xojo application? No. It is not. Why? While it would be a pain in the backside if they would even try to. And I guess they know this. If not: poor guys.
But there is another factor why the system “XoJo” worked for all the time. Their cool aided community. This people where supporting the company even if they have delivered crap. While they believed deeply in this product which was at the end: more shiny than functional. That’s the problem behind. When and if people supporting a behavior like this the company will never stop to do so. Why should they??
That is/was the premise of writing the IDE using the language & tool itself
Before I worked there it used to be the case the developers used C++ IDE’s all day every day so the issues they encountered were not the same as what users encountered.
So they started writing the IDE in REALbasic to make it so developers there ran into the same issues
Pros & cons of that aside it worked and the dev team did experience many more of the same issues users ran into
But with Web, iOS, & Android thats NOT the case because they arent using those targets day in day out all day every day. There’s no part of their business that relies on those all the time to FORCE them to make them better.
So they are back in the position of “well you dont use this so no wonder you dont see the problems”
Trust me this conversation ISNT new
No but pats of it could be and probably should be JUST to make sure they DO have something running that IS Xojo code so they can experience exactly what users experience
The phrase that ALWAYS drove me nuts was “Well I might not use this version but I’m going to pay for the update just to support them”
THAT is insane behaviour
If FORD made cars that blew up would you send them money “just to support them?” and keep driving your Edsel ?
I’ve NEVER run into the kind of thinking in any other community
If the Vendor put out crap then people wouldnt buy it, the vendor would quickly be incentivized to fix it, and the people would buy.
Where’s the incentive if people just send you money just because ?
Heck send me money JUST BECAUSE !
I mean they’re used to “well I’m not going to use this anyways but…” so whats the difference ?
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people still buy Teslas
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much as I dislike the cyber truck & Elon after his DOGE run
they DO work
they DO seem to experience more fires than say gasoline powered cars though
EDIT : that may be just because they pose peculiar issues trying to subdue the fires
So the stories are sensationalized
says
The resulting analysis found that per 100,000 cars sold in each category, electric vehicles had the lowest number of fires. Hybrid vehicles had the highest risk ratio for fire, and traditional cars were in the middle.
now this is 3 years old so its possible those #'s have shifted a bit
more recent reporting by
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/electric-car-fire-statistics.html
https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-advice/how-many-electric-cars-catch-fire-every-year-94313
seem to suggest that EV’s pose less fire risk than traditional internal combustion vehicles
but does that include the car locking you in during a fire, or additional safety considerations like turning off autopilot just before you drive into a wall so the company doesn’t have to shoulder the blame? 
EV’s in general may be safer, but I think Tesla’s specifically, especially with some known repeated safety recalls and cost cutting (ie: making the axels lighter by using less metal causing them to fail, etc.) have a higher risk than other manufacturers. (not to say they can’t pass a crash test, but it’s not good to be the crash test when the brakes fail kinda thing).
The reports didnt detail things to that extent
More just overall statistics that given the # of vehicles on the road they experience fewer fires on average than hybrids or internal combustion engines
Personally I’d not by a Tesla
But I would be interested in some others that I think are nicer like a Rivian or PoleStar
I was a Tesla owner, had one of the first Model S when they were released. It was a beta car, I never had so much trouble. From failing batteries, recalls, bending roofs, and the oversized touch screen was so distracting, I once hit the side walk and the tyres blew up because I was trying to change the air conditioning settings.
After 3 years they promoted the new “autonomous” driving mode and offered me a test drive. Within 2 minutes, Tesla suddenly changed to the opposing traffic line and drove straight in front of another car. Luckily I was alert and could prevent a fatal car crash. Then they said that this feature is “beta” and not even officially permitted in my country, and it still isn’t, 6 years later.
There are so many horrific stories about Teslas with wheels falling off just hours after delivery. In China, when people complain about failures, Tesla sues them for defamation instead of offering repairs.
Now, where I live, Tesla no longer offers BTO orders, you can only by stock cars. I think they are slowly fading off the market. Personally, I would stay far away from anything this company is selling.
I’m also a firefighter (in our city we have a voluntary fire brigade) and we have regular trainings with cars. While EV’s on fire are very rare, if they occur, it’s a total disaster and almost impossible to extinguish the blaze of a burning EV. We have to order a special truck, filled with water, where the EV is then immersed into a water tank and guess what, it keeps burning for hours even when fully immersed so it is transported to a special facility in this water tank truck and we have to accompany the truck en route with our fire trucks because there is a risk that the transporting truck also starts burning.
Tesla’s priority is to produce the cars in the cheapest way possible and the interior certainly feels that way (but I’m used to German-brands like BMW, Porsche, Audi etc. so I’m biased). I think that passenger safety is less important to them because their lawyers will always find a way to blame you if things go south.
My experience with the Model S led me to go back to traditional cars for as long as they are produced. I care for the safety of my family and don’t want to be involved in an accident inside an EV. When the time has come I would rather buy any other brand than Tesla. Having said all that, I’m not an expert and solely speak from my personal experience and belief. I know there are many people happy with their Teslas, although the brand is now so damaged, nobody wants to buy them anymore, if it’s just for not associating with a psychopath who runs 20 companies concurrently and either rimming the butt of an US president or ranting against US politics, carelessly destroying billions of pension funds along the way.
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