You are 100% right bkeeney. No question. For me it was simple. While I was over all times also Java programmer. Even the toolchain around was simple. Somebody new will have many problems and needs - which language ever - time. But it is the only way out of it. If you want to leave Xojo there is no second Xojo without the limitations you can use. That is the simple problem.
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One moving away from Xojo could start with Android development. “Green field” so to say 
To help speed up the process 
Oh man far away from reality but for a good price. Makes nothing faster but the pockets of them full.
Is that your first hand experience or are you just imagining you know?
See ignoring the most used backserver language is what? Having no idea about the market. C is nearly never used. C# in Microsoft environments. Java is the most used backserver. So what shall I say about that certificate? Let me say it so: somebody applyIng for a job in my company with that certificate would get no job. And I guess also not at the most insurances, companies using sap, oracle, IBM rapid sphere and so on. No chance. All of them based on java.
Addendum. Web programming with python is programming with a nearly missed ecosystem. There is not so much high performance web server stuff for Python. And that is not the crown of computer science. Python will not reach the amount of servers java has. So simple. And big Data is also no business in the hands of python. Only while it is so often discussed it is not the best language for the web.
Whatever you learn and how you learn it, how long, how deep, how intensively, in the end there is only one thing: practice, practice, practice, this also applies to youtube, teachable, udemy.courses etc. even if nobody tells you upfront or students don’t want to believe it. I am not writing this for us here, but for inexperienced readers here on INN.
A modern way to test your knowledge is e.g.
This is only different for Xojo fans, whose language skills cannot be tested there. That’s how it is with a programming language that is used by millions worldwide every day
Wow!
I never expected this many responses! I truly appreciate everyone’s feedback and replies.
To clarify (I hope), what I am looking to create is a web app primarily for use with a favorite browser, on a PC, Tablet and possibly a mobile phone. No desktop app will be required. This is similar to what I get when using Xojo, excluding the mobile app. However, it will also need to communicate with one of my products running Linus to send/receive updates to and from non-cloud devices.
Perhaps I can ask a different question - If the simultaneous were in the 100’s would Xojo be able to handle it without a lot of stress?
Also, any good reading material that describes, probably in broad terms, the various “parts” of a cloud based web app with PostgreSQL that are typically required?
THANK YOU ALL again for your experiences, help and suggestions!
Tim
uhm … maybe
lots of factors in play like how busy the app is, how resource intensive it is, etc
We had a Web 1.0 app for a medium sized insurance broker and it maxed out at about 30 people on a dedicated Linux server. It was about 20 people on a Windows server. We offered to implement a load balancer for better performance, more users, better stability, etc, but they were/are notoriously cheap on their infrastructure. We offloaded a few things (email and reporting) to console apps that that helped enough that they didn’t feel they needed more.
Of course, they are now moving away from Xojo Web 1 to something more mainstream I’m sure. But they got a good 10 years out of it which cost them way less than SalesForce cost.
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I have a vaadin flow app with around 12000 concurrent users on a 64 gb threadripper server.
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You cant really expect an objective answer with that. It is not the same an app where the user just read something and click every 5 minutes than an app that makes complx reports…
But for example, last year I made an app, Quizz like, 120 concurrent users just reading the question and clicking one of the 4 buttons with the correct answer. It was really not a demanding app but it end up needing 6 instances to handle that number of users.
I assume because Swing has a certain style / approach / organization that you have to understand to understand Vadin?
That isn’t necessarily bad (or good), it just says that Swing has a somewhat opinionated paradigm that only makes sense to the initiated. It’s not unusual and not a problem assuming you don’t find too much cognitive dissonance in the paradigm.
Vaadin and codenameone are writing their ui in the same ui syntax. To write simple swing ui is less complex and faster to learn. That’s it
Whats the difference between Vaadin and Hilla - aside from the cost?
Tim
Vaadin flow is a webapp with java written frontend and backend in one application. Hilla is JavaScript frontend and java Backend. The apps I wrote for the big industrial customer with around 12000 concurrent users is a flow application. If I would await 120000 concurrent users I would write with hilla.
Vaadin and hilla you can use for free. You only have to pay for commercial features.
PHP?
PHP is not backserver my dear
Maybe you can enlighten us on what you mean by backserver as I’ve never heard the term before and Googling it just brings up stuff related to restaurants.