Similarities between Xojo and Apple

Oh, it appeared that Geoff took great offensive at the criticism we made of the 2.0 Language Reference, and shipped it with all the major problems the testers raised.

He even made the one person who didn’t complain an MVP! Albeit that was to replace the MVP who left because of “2.0 All The Things”. Now, he’s down another MVP.

Mind you, after talking to several MVPs, they’re just as pissed about Xojo as we are. They repeated what we said, sometimes before we even said it, but…

Geez I sure hope I didnt leave you with that impression
Much as I hated folks finding a bug (means I messed up somewhere) it was better to find them before it shipped than after


Even when you make the group you WILL interact with only 45 or 6 it can be hard if those 5 or 6 tell you “Lets PLEASE not do this as it will suck!”

Want to know how I know that ??? :stuck_out_tongue:

I can literally say Been there. Done that. Got the t-shirt




Looks like stating the facts is like insulting for some of them.


I was very surprised by this statement of Greg, especially has he left. But ok, we all have good days and not so good days.

I agree with Karen.

I asked Javier to make an example of a pdf table coming from a rowset instead of an array and he did it one day after ! Ricardo also is fast on the answer :slight_smile:


I must be living a charmed life - or at the very least not doing stuff that causes any instability, although I put the system through its paces daily. On the other hand my work machine running Windows10 leave a lot to be desired…
Just out of curiosity - what in MacOS is broken, ignored and making it feel like a beta for you?
I can’t say I’ve seen any issues at all (then again I’m on an M2 Mac, so perhaps the ‘broken’ issues relate to old hardware?) so genuinely curious…

1 Like

Typically my Macs last about two weeks before things just stop working correctly or go wonky. Both I keep very clean and with SSV you can’t modify the OS anyway. The best one is the M1 Mac randomly decides it’s got no audio and needs a reboot.

You’d also be surprised at how many people’s Mac crash during sleep and they don’t even know it, same with “silent” OS updates. I was freaking out for a while that Sleep Aid was crashing during a sleep, until I added some tracking and found it was the Mac, not Sleep Aid.

Sleep Aid uses a lot of Apple API to access system information, and Apple keep changing things. I confess that I knew Apple wouldn’t want me airing their dirty laundry (illustrating what your Mac does during sleep), so I expected a game of cat and mouse. Even then it feels ridiculous.

I had to workaround two issues in macOS 12.6.3.
I had to workaround an issue with 12.6.5.
I had to make changes for macOS 13.0
I had to workaround a new issue in macOS 13.4.

While I honestly doubt that Apple’s made these to fuck with me, their sleep system didn’t change all that much from 10.12 to 11.

This year, I’m going to have to drop support for older OS versions, because I no longer have hardware capable of running them and every single change I make to adapt to this “months” changes, needs to be tested.

Well I must say that my experience is 180degrees away from Sam’s

I have a macStudio that is “on” 24/7 except when it reboots for a new OSX install, and it goes to sleep when I tell it too, and wakes up with a click of the mouse. including the 3 attached monitors.

It is currently running Ventura 13.4 and have never experinced the “blinking” that others have mentioned.

I run Xcode everyday for 5 or 6 hours, and my only complaint there is the length of time it takes when there is an upgrade. Once installed, its fast, and compiles most of my projects (iPhone, iPad, macOS and AppleTV) in mere seconds

So perhaps I’m “blessed” or just lucky

1 Like

I can second @DaveS’s experience. My workhorse is a 2020 13" MacBook Pro with only 8 GB RAM. Currently on Ventura 13.4.

I am relying heavily on Remote Desktop for administration of my (small) customer’s MacBooks and servers. It became more reliable over time and it is once every 3 months that I need to log out and log in again because it became unresponsive.

I am an occasional coder and can’t complain about Xcode’s performance and stability (though I am definitely not a reference user).

When in office the MacBook is connected to a large secondary monitor. I also connect it to a USB scanner. All fine.

When out of office, I sometimes use an iPad as a secondary monitor. Sometimes I can’t action the mouse on the iPad anymore and have to disconnect and reconnect it. That’s the only hassle I can report.

VPN connection to my office network is painfully slow when travelling abroad. But this is a roaming issue.

1 Like

FWIW and in no way a scientific approach: I had all kind of issues (similar to those reported by Sam) in the past when I used the macOS migration tool for new hardware.

It all stopped when I made a clean install whenever I needed new hardware and just let the App Store install everything from scratch and manually installing the missing apps and then let iCloud download most of my documents or copying those manually from a backup.

Again not scientific but Apple is not really much better than Windows how it deals with orphane files and though an uninstall of an app ist quicker and easier it keeps a lot of crap on your systems, which probably gets migrated by the migration tool as well. Again, since I stoped using that tool I have no issues whatsoever.

This one I just have, I have it nearly everyday (i use Preview a lot):

I have previously noticed crashes during sleep, inasmuch as I may be presented with a login screen on wake - this is rare and hasn’t happened at all on my M2 MPB. Interestingly I’m sure it’s happened on my iOS devices as well. But I’ve never lost data to this weirdly enough and it’s vanishingly rare for me that I don’t even think about it.

My MBP is on >12 hours a day most days. Running all sorts of stuff. I’ve never once experienced loss of sound, on any of my many macs (since 1988)

I really can’t agree that the OS is in a state of “constant beta”… but that’s my mileage and as mentioned maybe I’m just living a charmed life….,

I use preview all the time - never seen this one before!!

Don’t mean to sound like an Apple apologist but I’m just bewildered by seeing this…

It was at save time: I reduced an image (scan of a magazine) and pasted into a standard macOS (Ventura) folder icon, then Cmd-s and crash, Preview have left the building.

AI am alway able to build ans save my custom icon after a Preview re-run, until a MBP m1 reboot sometimes after…

Last year, I had automatic Finder quit/run… in the background while I ws working on an application…

Ventura added a nice new feature, “Are you quick enough to use this USB device?” On this M1 Air, the USB permission dialog auto closes, it might be within a second, it may take a few seconds.

So I have to prepare to click the button before I connect and then tap, tap, tap in the hopes I clicked it before it auto-closes.

Boot back into Big Sur and USB works without a problem.

The only app I see regularly crash is PodCasts
but I’m still on Catalina for the time being :slight_smile:

At least Apple hasn’t said “Oh you’re not our target user” :slight_smile:


Apple : “Do you Have Money?”, then you ARE our target audience


There are days it feels like “You still have money ? How ? Didnt we get all of it yet ?”