Russia and it's poodle - how deliciously ironic …

How deliciously ironic that Russia - which suppresses all dissent, has tried to kill it’s main opposition politician Navalny with Novichok, and after Navalny was rescued by a German hospital arrested him on his return to Russia - has given Parler a new home so that Trump’s supporters can continue their far-right agenda.

I said in 2016: “That Al-Kaida, Islamic State, Russia, Iran, Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson support Trump should give every Republican pause - maybe they back the wrong horse here?”

And now once more Putin supports his poodle … :rofl:

Just for the record:
How about this for irony…
… as for protestors who can’t accept they lost a democratic vote and want to believe some madcap conspiracy theory, well we’ve seen that before, haven’t we?

Oh dear. Can‘t distinguish between lies and facts? You are not alone, most conservative voters have that problem. So here is what you label „madcap conspiracy theory“:

Throughout the campaign leading up to the Brexit referendum, the Leave camp spread many lies and misinformation to the public to get people to vote Leave. Here are the Top 8:

1. Lie: The UK sends 350 million pounds per week to the European Union. This money would go back to the NHS.

Debunk: The Leave campaign put the claim on the side of a red bus and aimed it at swing voters. The former boss of the Vote Leave campaign, Dominic Cummings, admits that Remain would have won without the claim that the 350 million would go back to the NHS. The UK Statistics Authority wrote to Vote Leave during the campaign stating the claim was, ‘misleading and undermines trust in official statistics’. The claim excluded the UK’s rebate, as well as payments received by the UK from the EU. It also fails to take into account the contribution to the Treasury from trade and business that would not be present without the EU single market. The government also has shown no sign of spending the £350m extra a week on the NHS if the UK leaves the EU.

2. Lie: Migrants are stealing Briton’s jobs and the UK would have control over its borders.

Debunk: Britain has taken in thousands of immigrants from Poland, Romania, and other Eastern European countries that joined the EU in recent years. In many poorer areas of the UK, there is a lot of resentment towards these immigrants. They are viewed as competitors for jobs and government-provided services, such as education, health care, and welfare. The Office of National Statistics says that while the numbers of EU workers in Britain has risen by 700,000 since 2013, EU workers are outnumbered by one million Britons who have gone into employment in the same period. The number of British citizens working in the UK labour force is now at the near-record level of 28 million, compared with 3 million foreign nationals. Also, the UK already controls its borders. EU workers can legally be required to leave after three months if they do not have a job or fulfil other conditions, such as being able to support themselves financially. The Schengen Agreement allows passport-free travel within certain EU countries, but the UK is not part of this agreement. The free movement of workers within the EU is essential to the single market.

3. Lie: UK Sovereignty is at stake.

Debunk: On the day of the referendum Lord Ashcroft’s polling team questioned 12,369 people who voted, which revealed that 49 per cent of Leave voters said the biggest single reason for wanting to leave the European Union was ‘the principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK’, implying that decisions should be on behalf of 66 million UK citizens, not 508 million EU residents. Leaving the EU cannot prevent external influences from shaping what happens inside the country’s borders. The UK will still need to work with other European countries; something that is likely to substantially influence the government’s domestic and foreign policy.

4. Lie: The EU is undemocratic and resembles Nazi Germany. Boris Johnson made the statement that Hitler and Napoleon both failed to unify Europe, and the EU has done the same.

Debunk: The EU has more democratic controls than any other typical international organization. It was founded on treaties between its member states. The political leaders of those countries decide on the EU’s overall direction and political agenda, and national ministers are the main decision-makers when it comes to policies.

5. Lie: Poverty in the North has nothing to do with austerity, it’s the European bureaucrats’ fault.

Debunk: Areas with poor economic and social fundamentals voted to leave. British working-class people used the referendum to voice their anger over funds being sent to the EU. Some of the most deprived parts of the UK, such as Wales and Cornwall receive £2.1 billion in funds from the EU to support development. The North-East, Northern Ireland and the East Midlands would be hardest hit by any increased barriers to trade with the EU if the UK leaves.

6. Lie: EU forbids the UK from forming trade deals with other countries. Leaving the EU would allow the UK to form trade deals with the rest of the world.

Debunk: The British Government would have no say over trade deals if it were to remain in a customs union with the EU — as some have insisted. One year after the referendum Liam Fox said on BBC Radio: ‘The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history’. So far, it has not been easy.

7. Lie: The European Army creation

Debunk: Some people would like to see a full-blown European army to compete with other nations. But the chances of that happening anytime in the near future are slim. In practice, the EU currently runs six military missions, plus 11 civilian operations, mostly in the Balkans, the Middle East and Africa. But the troops serving in these missions are not under the banner of an EU army, but national forces. EU defence policy remains in the hands of European governments, not the EU executive. There are currently no plans to create an EU army.

8. Lie: Lisbon Treaty Conspiracy Theory. This involved many lies in one document that spread around on different social media channels. Many of the tweets started with, ‘I have been reading the Lisbon Treaty’. This misinformation campaign began in March 2019 when it looked like the UK may not leave the EU.


  1. ‘The UK and all other EU members would lose their veto power by 2020’. The Lisbon Treaty did make changes to how EU law gets passed which reduced the scope of states’ veto ability, but it did not abolish veto powers. These changes are already in effect, rather than beginning in 2020.
  2. ‘All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or vetoes’. This is not something contained in the Lisbon Treaty or any other EU agreements. It was a false claim that was made.
  3. ‘All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022, and any member state that joins after that must adopt the Euro within 2 years of joining the EU’. At the moment, 19 of the 28 EU members are part of the ‘Euro area’. Both the UK and Denmark have ‘opt-outs’ to joining. The UK’s opt-out says that the UK is under no obligation to adopt the Euro — explicitly referenced in the Lisbon Treaty. The treaty does reference the ultimate goal of ‘the euro becoming the currency of all Member States of the Union’, but that doesn’t override the UK’s opt-out, and it does not set a time limit on that goal.
  4. ‘The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation’. The London Stock Exchange (LSE) and Deutsche Börse (its German equivalent) announced in February 2016 that they had proposed a merger to combine their activities. This merger was not set out in the Lisbon Treaty. The merger was blocked by the EU in March 2017, since it risked creating a monopoly. The two businesses would have continued to operate under their existing brand names and would not have merged into an ‘EU stock exchange’.

But sure, the red bus was an Antifa invention that just existed in the left‘s fevered imagination … :roll_eyes:

By the way, has Covid „just magically disappeared“ yet? :man_facepalming:

No… remember that is scheduled to happen at 12:01 Jan 20,2021 (right after Biden says “I do”)

which ought to be about the same point in time DJT ends up in international waters out of the country

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Poor old Markus, spends far too much time reading the Guardian.

Leave won the referendum despite Cummings et al not because of them. Nigel Farage even explained the reality of Vote Leaves’ £350m claim on Question Time before the referendum. Anything Cummings says is utterly worthless, it’s as daft as claiming you should test your eyes by going for a drive. Only Guardian readers and the BBC believe he’s some sort of evil genius Svengali that bewitched leave voters.

The leavers I recognised as getting / winning the referendum were either in Leave.EU (Nigel Farage / Arron Banks) or Grass Roots Out (Peter Bone / David Davis). It was the electoral commission that imposed Vote Leave, including disreputable people like Cummings, on leavers as our “official” campaign group.

Anyway, I was actually referring to the fake news in your favourite publication:

ITV news interview with Barr

Former Trump Attorney General Bill Barr Blames The Questioning Of The Election’s Legitimacy As What ‘Precipitated The Riots’
Former US attorney general William Barr tells ITV News questioning election legitimacy 'precipitated Capitol riots' | ITV News

WP post about McConnell saying “the mob was fed lies” … no !!!

Mitch McConnell Says Donald Trump ‘Provoked’ The Insurrection At The Capitol

The irony of these two admitting this is just astounding

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Ah, stage two: „can‘t defend against facts, then belittle the opposition. If possible undermine their credibility with unrelated facts.“

Next in the Trump playbook is „throw a tantrum“, I believe … :roll_eyes:

Contrary to you I read a wide range of papers from both the left and right spectrum from Germany, US, UK, New Zealand and occasionally others (maybe you should try broadening your horizon), and I do not find it necessary to hide my name as I can always back up my opinion with facts - so as stated before: you will always loose the argument.

Unless your argument is „it‘s ok to lie to and scam the public to get what I want“ - in which case I have misunderstood you :wink:

And yes, Cummings lies were critical to Brexit - that the Conservatives now see him as a liability and deny to ever having known him is unsurprising (taking responsibility isn‘t exactly the strong suit of Tories or Republicans). But the chickens are slowly coming home to roost, and even the Telegraph is starting to criticize the UK Tory government :scream:

As for Cadwalladr: maybe you should get your facts right first before mouthing off? A good summary is here:

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Peaceful activists celebrate Biden-inauguration

How interesting that the DEMOCRAT‘s office was vandalized … isn‘t “Antifa” supposed to be left … are you sure this isn’t “fake news” you are spreading :roll_eyes:

And if you thought things couldn’t get more bizarre:

It’s painful to watch how Republicans turn the US into the World’s laughing stock …

Surely I must be spreading fake news…

can this political mambo jambo please stop, I think we can keep politics to other forums???


Its been one year now.

Zero changes to the Xojo situation and any practical discussion on how to use the large numbers of customers on here to compel a change from Xojo are squashed and hounded out by the same folks who are smearing the political feces in its halls and on its front door.

This is a common result of human nature, it is easy to participate in wheel spinning and that provides the appearance of accomplishing something without any effort or risk. This makes all involved feel satisfied and the complaining continues forever without conclusion.

When this is called out into the open, expect to be told that there are tangible and productive working projects being developed secretly in the background. There will be no secondary indications of such work like whitepapers, new specifications, early betas, calls for contributions or solicitations for fundraising.

Two years from now will see this board still filled will posts about how bad Darth Cheeto Hitler was and Xojo will continue to be paid good money for churning out absolute garbage that nobody but its founder thinks is valuable.

I now understand why some members here are so defeated, apathetic and cynical. Its always easier to discuss and complain about the many things that you have absolutely no control over (international politics), rather than being required to put forth actual hard effort for that which is actually within your realm of influence.

1 Year has passed and no successor option chosen, no results on even discussing the creation of a successor and absolutely no action toward forcing Xojo into being accountable to its customers.

Whenever those who are willing to band together, make a plan and actually carry it out have had enough of this, the solution (or solutions) can be had in far less time that has been wasted here.

Please, carry on.

In these discussions some people constantly emphasize their intellectual and moral superiority over other people. Often these persons become insulting in the process. While the subject (politics) is boring and I usually do not participate in such discussions, I sometimes unfortunately feel tempted to make some „provocative“ or „confusing“ or even „neutral“ remark, to see what the reaction will be.

Fully agree. That would be the best solution.

Glad to see you back here. After 11 years of RealStudio / Xojo I moved on to Java (and also some C++) last spring. I’m in the process of rewriting my web-applications with servlet technology - this will take some additional months. While this is much much harder than using Xojo-Web, the result is much faster, more reliable and more scalable. I still keep some legacy desktop apps alive using an older version of Xojo. The Xojo-apps that do not sell well will be discontinued during the next 1-2 years, the others will be rewritten in JavaFX. Every new project since last spring (desktop, web, mobile) is/will be written in Java (or sometimes C++). That is why I rarely participate in this forum (and also TOF) anymore.

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This forum isnt intended to focus on XOjo but on Corss platform development
So there are threads about Dart / Flutter, REMObjects cross platform IDE & compiler tools & many others
Certainly feel free to ask / contribute in those as you see fit
Without fear it will be marked “off topic” etc and removed because it discusses some other toolset

Writing a successor is a giant job
Just getting to the point there is something like “developer preview release 1” would be a LOT of work
I’d be surprised that such a thing would be ready in just one year esp if expectations are/were to be “I can use it to replace Xojo the first day I get my hands on it”

Or maybe you meant something else ?

I can certainly imagine that even if such an effort were underway that there might be reasons such an effort was kept quiet

As customers one of the few ways we can hold Xojo accountable is to NOT pay them for product.
There are no other viable avenues that I’m aware of
I suppose they could be sued but that is not certain to succeed nor are the grounds clear
With many here being international customers the costs to do so would very likely be prohibitive

If you have some other ideas I’m all ears
But they have to be actionable to have any effect

Well done - proper sources instead of twitter snippets that - as we learned - any idiot can post.

There are lunatics and extremists at both ends of the political spectrum, but the big difference that you fail to acknowledge and try to distract from is that while it is a fringe minority on the left, it has gone mainstream on the right where according to several polls about 70% of the Republican party believe in conspiracy theories proclaiming “fraudulent and stolen elections” when the Republican States, Republican Governors, Republican Lawyers, Republican Judges, Republican observers, and Republican vote counters said it was fair and true, and the law suits were thrown out of court when they could not produce any evidence for their bonkers claims and had to admit that claims were untrue (eg “ok, there was a non-zero number of republican observers in the room after all”).

How detached from reality can you be? And just look what happens to those Republicans speaking the truth (and not by some fringe lunatics but by their own party!):

What boggles the mind is that Republicans MUST know they’ve been lied to (“Covid is a hoax.”, “Covid will just magically disappear”) but choose to ignore it.

People REALLY want to be lied to - and most Republicans are happy to oblige (Hawley should be an embarrassment but alas might be a future Republican leader).

I highly respected Senator McCain, a man of deep integrity. Sadly Republicans do not share that sentiment …


Nothing stops you from ignoring the threads. But in case you missed it: history is being made, large sections of the US population is being manipulated but think it’s the other side being not just manipulated but ruled by a cabal of power-mad pedophiles :roll_eyes: (did you notice the “Democrats are evil” T-Shirts?), the US has gone a huge step towards fascism (if you don’t believe it just listen to what some of those arrested for storming the Capitol are saying: “Even if he doesn’t pardon me I would follow Trump anywhere” - that is so reminiscent of SS speak it’s unbelievable), voter suppression by Republicans has reached new heights (and now they wanted to declare millions of votes illegal), and you complain about THAT being brought up?

You don’t have to read it (and it is easy enough to ignore) - but you want to silence it? :man_facepalming:


no, I do not want to silence anything, my experience is that political discussions in forums do not bring anything good with them.

I was hopefull that we could avoid such discussions here, but please go on, I wil ignore it :flushed::grinning:


Keep the conversation respectful and refrain from being insulting or demeaning