# Realistically, what could Xojo do to make you stay? **URL:** \ **Category:** Other\ **Created:** [25 August 2022 06:50 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/realistically-what-could-xojo-do-to-make-you-stay/2688 "2022-08-25T06:50:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Garry](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/garry/32/2_2.png) [@Garry](https://ifnotnil.com/u/Garry)\ **Post date:** [31 August 2022 06:35 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/realistically-what-could-xojo-do-to-make-you-stay/2688/67 "2022-08-31T06:35:48Z")
> [@JuliaTruchsess](#): > > the ridiculous method inspector where signatures are crammed into a 10-character wide field This is the single most ridiculous thing in the IDE by far. I just do not understand why this has not been changed. It has been complained about for years and years. ---
**Author:** ![JuliaTruchsess](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/juliatruchsess/32/456_2.png) [@JuliaTruchsess](https://ifnotnil.com/u/JuliaTruchsess)\ **Post date:** [31 August 2022 13:12 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/realistically-what-could-xojo-do-to-make-you-stay/2688/68 "2022-08-31T13:12:57Z")
Yes, and RealStudio’s design in this respect was perfect. ---
**Author:** ![bkeeney](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/bkeeney/32/225_2.png) [@bkeeney](https://ifnotnil.com/u/bkeeney)\ **Post date:** [31 August 2022 14:17 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/realistically-what-could-xojo-do-to-make-you-stay/2688/69 "2022-08-31T14:17:17Z")
Well, supposedly there’s an IDE redesign ‘in progress’ but it was, what, 4 years ago when they first showed off some of the proof of concept screenshots at XDC? To me this says that API2 was/is a freaking disaster because it took them twice as long to implement as they thought and even now they’re still fighting changes. Too many distractions, too many targets, too few developers. ---
**Author:** ![npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/npalardy/32/10_2.png) [@npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/u/npalardy)\ **Post date:** [31 August 2022 14:42 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/realistically-what-could-xojo-do-to-make-you-stay/2688/70 "2022-08-31T14:42:24Z")
Consistency - I kid you not You edit constants and properties of objects in the inspector So since the signature is a “property” of a method … its in the inspector That you CANNOT make the inspector wider than about 30% of the width of the IDE window is one issue Still would be nice to have moved it above the method itself like it was in REAL Studio/REALbasic ---
**Author:** ![ivan](https://ifnotnil.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/i/df788c/32.png) [@ivan](https://ifnotnil.com/u/ivan)\ **Post date:** [31 August 2022 16:19 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/realistically-what-could-xojo-do-to-make-you-stay/2688/71 "2022-08-31T16:19:39Z")
> [@npalardy](#): > > That you CANNOT make the inspector wider than about 30% of the width of the IDE window is one issue Not a real issue if you use the space correctly. Compare the crappy interface they had: ![image](https://ifnotnil.com/uploads/default/original/2X/a/a1c4320611680b173d73aba254476890ca5e00dd.png) VS what can be EASILY done in the same “limited” inspector width: ![Untitled Project](https://ifnotnil.com/uploads/default/original/2X/e/e6a54c4b7452ec3eb33d8de0e7ccb86d2041a048.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Karen](https://ifnotnil.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@Karen](https://ifnotnil.com/u/Karen)\ **Post date:** [31 August 2022 17:19 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/realistically-what-could-xojo-do-to-make-you-stay/2688/72 "2022-08-31T17:19:11Z")
> [@npalardy](#): > > That you CANNOT make the inspector wider than about 30% of the width of the IDE window is one issue You can make it a floating Window (as I am sure you know! 😉 ) -Karen ---
**Author:** ![thommcgrath](https://ifnotnil.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@thommcgrath](https://ifnotnil.com/u/thommcgrath)\ **Post date:** [31 August 2022 17:27 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/realistically-what-could-xojo-do-to-make-you-stay/2688/73 "2022-08-31T17:27:47Z")
> [@npalardy](#): > > Still would be nice to have moved it above the method itself like it was in REAL Studio/REALbasic That was always supposed to happen. Geoff and I struggled with this for a while. Putting the signature in the inspector was not something anybody wanted. It was something we settled on due to technical constraints. Within a few releases, it was supposed to move above the code editor. We wanted to add a token field, so somebody could type the whole signature if they wanted, or could just edit individual pieces like to provide more guidance. There wasn’t time for that kind of effort, so it went into the inspector for what should have been 2-3 releases. ---
**Author:** ![npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/npalardy/32/10_2.png) [@npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/u/npalardy)\ **Post date:** [31 August 2022 17:49 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/realistically-what-could-xojo-do-to-make-you-stay/2688/74 "2022-08-31T17:49:08Z")
Oh trust me I wasnt a fan of how it was used either And I wrote a lot of the code to make it do what it does > Dont make me do something I’m going to hate ---
**Author:** ![npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/npalardy/32/10_2.png) [@npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/u/npalardy)\ **Post date:** [31 August 2022 17:50 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/realistically-what-could-xojo-do-to-make-you-stay/2688/75 "2022-08-31T17:50:10Z")
they worked so badly on windows & linux that … blech ! I just got out of the habit of using them that way at all on those systems and that trickled back to not using it that way on macOS either ---
**Author:** ![npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/npalardy/32/10_2.png) [@npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/u/npalardy)\ **Post date:** [31 August 2022 17:50 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/realistically-what-could-xojo-do-to-make-you-stay/2688/76 "2022-08-31T17:50:58Z")
yes I know that and you can type the entire signature into the inspector one 🙂 so often things deferred became things not done ☹ > do it NOW because you wont ever come back to it like you plan to is so often true in this business ---
**Author:** ![fredhupman](https://ifnotnil.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/f/ec9cab/32.png) [@fredhupman](https://ifnotnil.com/u/fredhupman)\ **Post date:** [1 September 2022 10:24 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/realistically-what-could-xojo-do-to-make-you-stay/2688/77 "2022-09-01T10:24:31Z")
> [@JuliaTruchsess](#): > > As far as hoping for someone to buy the company, be careful what you wish for. Say what you like about Geoff, at least he has a vision, sort of, and a passion, without a doubt. Products like this that get bought often go very sour and then wither. It was the vision and passion of Steve Jobs that drove Apple to the brink of bankruptcy. Somehow I doubt Bill Gates will be coming out of semi-retirement to bail Xojo out. 😉 For all I know Geoff could be ‘a really nice guy’ but the outward appearance is of not a very good business person. From what I am reading the business is already withering with little love left for the product. This forum is symptomatic, inhabited as it is by what were some of Real and Xojo’s most loyal customers and most vocal cheer leaders. ---
**Author:** ![thorstenstueker](https://ifnotnil.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/aca169/32.png) [@thorstenstueker](https://ifnotnil.com/u/thorstenstueker)\ **Post date:** [1 September 2022 10:53 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/realistically-what-could-xojo-do-to-make-you-stay/2688/78 "2022-09-01T10:53:01Z")
A Vision means not automatically the success in Business. The other way around: success in Businesmeans possibly a Vision was successful. The Xojo Vision found no way to a real success. Like Visual Basic had or even [VB.NET](http://VB.NET) or other niche languages. Xojo is one of the rarest products. ---
**Author:** ![prodman](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/prodman/32/81_2.png) [@prodman](https://ifnotnil.com/u/prodman)\ **Post date:** [1 September 2022 14:46 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/realistically-what-could-xojo-do-to-make-you-stay/2688/79 "2022-09-01T14:46:08Z")
> [@fredhupman](#): > > It was the vision and passion of Steve Jobs that drove Apple to the brink of bankruptcy Um, that happened when Jobs wasn’t at Apple. When he came back he effectively saved Apple. ---
**Author:** ![Jerry-Fritschle](https://ifnotnil.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/j/b5a626/32.png) [@Jerry-Fritschle](https://ifnotnil.com/u/Jerry-Fritschle)\ **Post date:** [1 September 2022 14:56 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/realistically-what-could-xojo-do-to-make-you-stay/2688/80 "2022-09-01T14:56:46Z")
> [@prodman](#): > > > [@fredhupman](#): > > > > It was the vision and passion of Steve Jobs that drove Apple to the brink of bankruptcy > > Um, that happened when Jobs wasn’t at Apple. When he came back he effectively saved Apple. I saw that too, but in context I just took it for a typo. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/npalardy/32/10_2.png) [@npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/u/npalardy)\ **Post date:** [1 September 2022 15:55 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/realistically-what-could-xojo-do-to-make-you-stay/2688/81 "2022-09-01T15:55:21Z")
Fixing bugs has been mentioned several times They JUST finished their Bug Bash month And while they’ll tell you they fixed a zillion bugs here’s what I saw from the outside ```auto Date #open bugs Aug 1, 2022 Aug 2, 2022 2041 Aug 3, 2022 2047 Aug 4, 2022 Aug 5, 2022 2029 Aug 6, 2022 2027 Aug 7, 2022 2026 Aug 8, 2022 2028 Aug 9, 2022 2024 Aug 10, 2022 2030 Aug 11, 2022 2038 Aug 12, 2022 2051 Aug 13, 2022 2052 Aug 14, 2022 2046 Aug 15, 2022 2050 Aug 16, 2022 2042 Aug 17, 2022 2045 Aug 18, 2022 2052 Aug 19, 2022 2051 Aug 20, 2022 2050 Aug 21, 2022 2047 Aug 22, 2022 2052 Aug 23, 2022 2050 Aug 24, 2022 2049 Aug 25, 2022 2042 Aug 26, 2022 2038 Aug 27, 2022 2036 Aug 28, 2022 2034 Aug 29, 2022 2038 Aug 30, 2022 2036 Aug 31, 2022 2035 Sep 1, 2022 2029 ``` the total # of issues reported that are labelled BUGS barely moved It didnt drop by 100 or more And why not ? On average there are/were as many, if not more, new bugs reported every day than they fixed This is where they need more hands with the right kind of expertise AND a process to fix and NOT introduce more bugs than they fix every day THATS what they could do to make be believe they are serious about this - and stay Personally I’ll keep using it since my clients use it But they have limits and I truly believe Xojo are pressing some to their limits to the point “we’re moving to some thing else” will be the next words I hear ---
**Author:** ![bkeeney](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/bkeeney/32/225_2.png) [@bkeeney](https://ifnotnil.com/u/bkeeney)\ **Post date:** [1 September 2022 16:23 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/realistically-what-could-xojo-do-to-make-you-stay/2688/82 "2022-09-01T16:23:51Z")
Personally, I think having several developers that do nothing but bug fixes would slowly whittle them down. Or maybe an 80/20 bug fix to new features mix. This month definitely feels like they’re proving our point on not having enough staff. Not enough developers and not enough QA on staff. I mean, my company has more Xojo developers than Xojo and we have a nicely staffed QA team that can (and does) do full regression testing. ---
**Author:** ![Torsten\_B](https://ifnotnil.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/ecae2f/32.png) [@Torsten\_B](https://ifnotnil.com/u/Torsten_B)\ **Post date:** [1 September 2022 16:42 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/realistically-what-could-xojo-do-to-make-you-stay/2688/83 "2022-09-01T16:42:51Z")
I did some manual counting for the month of August 2022. Here are the findings: ![Screenshot 2022-09-01 at 18.35.18](https://ifnotnil.com/uploads/default/original/2X/9/9eb92c82a827b51097974ed0afd5305cf52bd444.png) These numbers indicate that bugs pile up significantly faster than Xojo can fix them. I also took a look at all issues bearing the labels ‘Bug’ AND ‘Reproducible’. There are just over 1000 of these. Going back in time in that list, most of them are not yet assigned to a developer. I am waiting for Xojo issuing a statement at the end of BugBash2022 with conclusion and outlook. Xojo’s developers are doing a great job. However, the strong impression that Xojo is severely understaffed remains. ---
**Author:** ![Karen](https://ifnotnil.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@Karen](https://ifnotnil.com/u/Karen)\ **Post date:** [1 September 2022 18:29 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/realistically-what-could-xojo-do-to-make-you-stay/2688/84 "2022-09-01T18:29:13Z")
> [@bkeeney](#): > > Not enough developers and not enough QA on staff. I mean, my company has more Xojo developers than Xojo and we have a nicely staffed QA team that can (and does) do full regression testing. What does your company do? -Karen ---
**Author:** ![ivan](https://ifnotnil.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/i/df788c/32.png) [@ivan](https://ifnotnil.com/u/ivan)\ **Post date:** [1 September 2022 19:05 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/realistically-what-could-xojo-do-to-make-you-stay/2688/85 "2022-09-01T19:05:16Z")
> [@npalardy](#): > > And why not ? On average there are/were as many, if not more, new bugs reported every day than they fixed The bug bash was some hope for users that believe reporting bugs is useless, they went back to open issues… Xojo had a LOT moe reports than other months. Also there are more new bugs reported than those fixed, they anounce the end of the bug bash and we are back to the “Xojo will never fix bugs” feeling in the comunity… But tell Xojo they need an extended BugBash and they feel atacked 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Torsten\_B](https://ifnotnil.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/ecae2f/32.png) [@Torsten\_B](https://ifnotnil.com/u/Torsten_B)\ **Post date:** [1 September 2022 19:10 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/realistically-what-could-xojo-do-to-make-you-stay/2688/86 "2022-09-01T19:10:41Z")
> [@ivan](#): > > Also there are more new bugs reported than those fixed, they anounce the end of the bug bash and we are back to the “Xojo will never fix bugs” feeling in the comunity… It may be too early to draw such a conclusion. Xojo announced they will share their long term plan for addressing bugs. Let’s hear what the plan is. [Previous page](https://ifnotnil.com/t/realistically-what-could-xojo-do-to-make-you-stay/2688.md?page=3) [Next page](https://ifnotnil.com/t/realistically-what-could-xojo-do-to-make-you-stay/2688.md?page=5)