Letter to Geoff

Was that by any chance for Mass Spec software?

Rapid. Release. Model.

I was around pre-RRM and there were occasional NUG rants that would fill my inbox due to bugs. Maybe RRM made things worse, I don’t know. From the outside looking in, i have no idea how bugs are handled, but it doesn’t seem like anyone is accountable. You can call it a “priority” issue, but I don’t think it needs to be a high priority. You just need someone to babysit the bugs. I get it, bugs are boring. That’s why somebody needs to be designated as the cheerleader to prioritize and assign the bugs. If that’s how it’s done then I’m sorry, I just never get the impression that’s anywhere close to what’s happening. From talking with engineers at various xojo conferences i have inferred that it’s often left up to them.

But back to KPI’s. Things that get counted get attention. I would start there.

I’d probably be happy if they just fixed the “verified” bugs!

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we had a source code license from a vendor for their enterprise accounting package
many digits involved and we had the code just so we could figure out how we could interface to it from other languages
a lot of $ for them to literally do nothing

Let start with Reproducible
I have no idea how many other folks have but I have 100+


That’s what I meant, couldn’t remember what the specific tag in feedback was… :sunglasses:

I was a little disturbed to hit a snag, search feedback to report it, and discover my own report from 5 years earlier describing the same (unresolved) issue.


Then you just revealed something from the testers channel :wink:

That may not be a problem on this forum.

And in my opinion the testers forum for a released version should be archived and made public.
So you start with a new testers forum for each version going in beta.


Yes,I think like you.
I’m guessing they assume, if they made previous beta cycles public, users never testing Xojo would perhaps know how these cycles work; it’s perhaps the reason it doesn’t work like that…

I posted today another blog post: Two weeks with Xojo 2020r1

I’d like to remind people that there are fixes and improvements for Desktop/Console projects.
And we got a couple of users to renew their MBS licenses :slight_smile:

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Btw the logic behind the Rapid Release Model is seriously flawed:

“Users want new features faster. Nobody buys a release for bug fixes”.

Users buy a license because Xojo does what they need - then you already have them for a year. So now make their experience better. Improve the product by fixing the annoyances.

9 to 12 months later when they are good and ready … THEN release new features.

Developers might WANT new features, but what they NEED is stability and reliability. After all, their livelihood DEPENDS on the tool they are using.


Users by a license because they believe Xojo does what they need. And if bugs occur that changes that perception, and they are never addressed, then those users will move on to something else, because the realized what they initally believed was false.

And really everyone likes/wants new features… but remember those new features weren’t there in the version you bought… so you didn’t need it then. New features might KEEP existing customers (assuming the bugs are fixed first)

The idea was, of course, the new features could be fully tested and implemented and, when ready, rolled out sooner than the once a year

In old days, a company released “release 1” in the first quarter of the year then the rest of the year might be just big fixes.
And so new features might wait for many months to go out in next years new version.
Like Apple does with macOS, iOS, TVOS etc :slight_smile:
There’s a few companies that use this “release once a year and bug fix the rest of the time” model and it seems to work well for them.

Rapid release should be predicated not just on “features roll out faster” but “well tested features roll out faster”

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Reading https://forum.xojo.com/t/begging-for-another-release-system/56684/147 makes me feel that Xojo, Inc. is still stuck with their idea of Xojo users being mainly hobbyists with just puny web apps to maintain. Is Geoff aware that any single developer being pushed away from Xojo can easily shy away several potential strongly targeted new developers?

I mean that sentence can be read as

What, besides the weeks of working time necessary to update your web app and the issue to communicate this to your paying customer is stopping you from moving to Web 2.0?

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“besides the weeks of working time necessary to update”

That is so brave from him…

“What else apart from money, time, money, and … money prevents you from using an unfinished and bug full product?”


But we do pay for bugs. :wink:

No. It was a server based software with which we conducted and evaluated surveys (scientific research, course evaluations etc.) and also exams.

That sounds a LOT like

You time isnt nearly as valuable as ours so suck it up and move your app and quit whining !

It also sounds like “give me your list so we can work on it” which I’m not seeing a lot of. I’m not taking sides on the issue but I’m seeing generic complaints whereas a list of feedback requests would be much more compelling.