Java Platform Update

Java helps us, to get away from Xojo. My toolchain now for Desktop, Web, IOS and Android is simple: JavaFX with GLUON Mobile and JPro.one and Scenebuilder for building the needed FXML Files for the Screen Designs. With this Toolchain you can build for all platforms from ONE Coedebase and ten from one Screendesign.
If needed I can also develop single Screens for all platforms.

With Github Actions I am building for all Platforms. Github actions lets you build your Apps for all Platforms on the Platforms by self (Windows, Linux and MAC OS). It is not expensive and really fast.

Upfront Costs

For Development

If you use IntelliJIdea CE and GluonMobile, GluonDesktop and JPro Web you need nothing to pay for.

For Releasing

Releasing Desktop Apps costs 50$ per year, Mobile 500$ per Year. Web has another Licensing Model which costs per Server.

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Sounds like deployment quickly gets expensive. What are the web deployment options ?

What support is offered - I read that they don’t have their own forums but use stackoverflow instead - a quick peruse of stackoverflow appears to show most questions asked get very little, if any, response?

eployment for Java Swing Applications you can get for free…be passioned

Yes but you keep mentioning Gluon mobile - I’m trying to understand what the support is like - they have no forums of their own now.

JavaFX needs no additional Supporting. It is not Xojo. Use the Java Support forums around the World. Also for JavaFX. There are thousands of Forums and Millions of users.

Gluon is only a Tool which makes JavaFX available on all platforms from one Code- and one Designbase. So if you only want Desktop: no need for Gluon. If you only want Desktop and Web: no need for Gluon. If you want only Mobile: use Gluon.

That’s it. For Java and JavaFX you may think deployment is expensive. But it is for a solution Xojo is not even able to bring, scalable for ten thousands of users. Xojo can only a few. JPro as is can a few thousand. Depends only on the Hardware you are running on.

So before comparing a high end solution with the Crap Xojo is delivering: there is no comparable situation.

For Xojo alike Solutions for small Web Applications you can even use Jetbrains Projector with Java Swing. For Desktop also.

What you wanna tell me? Development gets expensive? Ohh Man. No. Development costs NOTHING. Per Server payment is not that absurd, I am sorry. And which Web Options you have? Okay, if you don’t want to pay anything: use Vaadin. Costs nothing. If you want to develop Mobile for Nothing? Use CodenameOne. Costs nothing for your small projects. Desktop? Use JavaFX or Swing and do Releasing for Free. For the people which do not want to pay anything it is still possible.

He asked a SIMPLE question, why not just answer it instead of all the tantrum?

For JPro and Gluon you can see the prices of licencing, support and consulting in their sites:

You spoke about development. And that codtd nothing. So I am right. And the pricing for the servers isn’t development costs. And the other thing is: what do you care?

You can get Support for CodenameOne, Gluonmobile and many other Java projects on Stackoverflow and other forums and also for Gluon from Gluon. Support from Gluon means: Support from Vendor. What you mean is: Support from other users which is not real Support. But never mind. Also CodenameOne has a Support chat. Works better than users trying to find solutions. And yes, I tried out. That works, Also Vaadin Support is not a forum but a direct support.

And the next: all of them are well documented. Also Java and JavaFX are well documented. So the need for a forum isn’t that big as you may think. I was never in the need of a forum until now because of the well documented language. And I guess I will never be.

NO, you are wrong, Software development is a process that includes conceiving, designing, prototyping, programming, documenting, testing, bug fixing, releasing, maintaining or any other activities that result in software products.

You are confusing development with programming/coding

You know what: speak about what you want to. I know what was speaking about and releasing is a part of Deployment and not of Development. Sorry. I am since 35 years in this industry and: guess what there is a big difference. So when I say you can develop and test for free and do even test releases for free (yes the step you forgot: that a test releasing is also really important to have a higher quality but some devs are testing a bit and releasing: that is wrong following to the Standards for example in EN/ISO 62304.

That is covered in the “any other activities”

Wow, you really should be ashame in that case. The standard you refered says that releasing IS PART of development.

and yes: that is part of the Process but not of the core development. But you should read the entire standard to understand that. The Staging for Testrelease is important to do.
And so if you say: development costs money: not the development itself. And I told you also:

Develop with Swing, Codenameone for Mobile and Vaadin for Web and you can use only open Source Technology and pay not for anything.

I don’t know why you believe you can attack me in this wise but I can tell you: behaving like somebody adult should never behave will not make it to a friendly and polite conversation.

With Releasing - and that you would know if you could read the entire standard - the process of Development is ended definitely. Why: while then the release and maintenance process starts you … . And even if you believe you are so smart: ask the FDA or other authority

Releasing is NOT development. Maintenance is later also not really. While the Development process following to ISE 13485 is here also to implement. Smarty. It is not working like you try to provide. You have no Idea about and speak so loud that I really miss your politeness you want from other.

TONE GUYS TONE !

personally attacks are NOT necessary
please refrain
take a deep breath
go for a walk

and keep it CIVIL !!!

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I took a deep breath. Sorry. And when you over this discussion try to target me to get down under: No.

Trust me you ARE NOT the only participant in this silliness over a difference of opinion about how to do software development

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Having worked with norms in another industry I learned that norms can also carry ambiguities. Things are not always clear in a black and white fashion. Context helps decrypting, making it clear.
I am following this controversial discussion with interest because my knowledge of the norms of the software world and their application is limited.
Much we can learn from a good technical/scientific dispute. Nothing we can learn from personal attacks.

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That is correct. I am in the medical development since two decades. And I have this shit in front of me. The problem is that people believe: Deployment is part of the Development process. No. Deployment has to be done by development branch. That is a big difference. So when said: the development process does not cover the Delivering of the Software to the customer : final releasing : it still covers the test releasing for example on testing servers. Exactly there is the line.

While also maintaining and bugfixing is important that testing servers are more than important for the product. But still: they are not production release. Because there and exactly there is the process of Development ended and restarts with Lifecycle Maintenance. I have more than 100 Product files builded exactly on this topology, some files by FDA, some by ASEA, some by European authorities. It is always the same.

I don’t think there’s a universally recognized line. I dipped my toe into corporate software development and the trend there seems to be to turn developers into jacks of all and masters of none, often under the rubric “full stack developer”. You are to know web, server and client side, desktop, services (including microservices orchestration) and so-called DevOps which includes deployment. All on top of a half dozen languages, frameworks, and libraries. The lines are blurred, regardless of what some conceptual document or standard claims.

Of course we want it spelled out in ironclad rigid black & white but companies are greedy to get more & more out of people and so coming into any random development team the line might be drawn anywhere, or not really at all.

there are standards i.e. 27001 and the parts of iso 9000 following and many others which are to use standards for all industries to get Iso 9000x certificates. If you don’t need one: congratulation. But here and for my US customers there is no chance without this certificates. And so: there are standards. Even Oracle, IBM, SAP: all of them following them. Also Apple is 9001 following certified for Software Development.