# IndieAppSales **URL:** \ **Category:** Other\ **Created:** [27 February 2024 07:06 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/indieappsales/3854 "2024-02-27T07:06:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/npalardy/32/10_2.png) [@npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/u/npalardy)\ **Post date:** [12 March 2024 14:04 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/indieappsales/3854/21 "2024-03-12T14:04:51Z")
I’ve bought some And some at full price JUST because I should have bought them a long time ago ! Support indie developers ---
**Author:** ![HalGumbert](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/halgumbert/32/2198_2.png) [@HalGumbert](https://ifnotnil.com/u/HalGumbert)\ **Post date:** [12 March 2024 14:13 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/indieappsales/3854/22 "2024-03-12T14:13:21Z")
Whooohoo! Checking it out. That TOF thread is nuts how they went after you just for info about an opportunity. I just got Text Workflow. OMG. I tend to use BBEdit, but this is awesome to run a multi step process. ---
**Author:** ![bkeeney](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/bkeeney/32/225_2.png) [@bkeeney](https://ifnotnil.com/u/bkeeney)\ **Post date:** [12 March 2024 14:31 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/indieappsales/3854/23 "2024-03-12T14:31:37Z")
> [@samRowlands](#): > > I do know that after talking to most 3rd Party Add-on vendors, we’re all seeing a big decline, one vendor actually said last year was the worst in 10 years. Since I was almost exclusively consulting I saw a huge drop-off starting in 2018 and throughout 2019. I (thankfully) found my full-time job in March of 2020 (the week lock downs started for covid). I still track consulting postings and there’s just not much out there. Frankly, the things that attracted a business to look at Xojo are just as easily done by other languages now. Those other languages have a better reputation, bigger developer community, more 3rd party options (paid and open source), more consultants, and are backed by large companies with a lot of developers devoted to expanding and improving the language. Xojo squandered any lead they had and when they could have done something significant they decided to rearrange the deck chairs with API 2 and ignore their most ardent supporters. ---
**Author:** ![npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/npalardy/32/10_2.png) [@npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/u/npalardy)\ **Post date:** [12 March 2024 17:16 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/indieappsales/3854/24 "2024-03-12T17:16:37Z")
> [@bkeeney](#): > > rearrange the deck chairs with API 2 and ignore their most ardent supporters. and they renamed them from “supporters” to “trolls” so they were API 2’ed as well 😛 EDIT : changed AUNT to AND ---
**Author:** ![samRowlands](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/samrowlands/32/121_2.png) [@samRowlands](https://ifnotnil.com/u/samRowlands)\ **Post date:** [13 March 2024 00:49 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/indieappsales/3854/25 "2024-03-13T00:49:11Z")
> [@HalGumbert](#): > > That TOF thread is nuts how they went after you just for info about an opportunity. Yeah, that was pretty weird, but I have noticed a couple of forum members really changed their attitude towards me since I announced that I’m leaving and selling off App Wrapper. One of them bizarrely accused me of being unwilling / unable to learn a new programming language (API 2.0), when I urm, left to learn a new programming language… I think that some people don’t have a plan for “Life after Xojo” and would rather ensure that no-one talks about the sinking ship in the hopes that it might stop sinking. I have noticed how some people are willing to go through some pretty weird and incorrect mental gymnastics to deny anything is wrong with their favorite brand. ---
**Author:** ![npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/npalardy/32/10_2.png) [@npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/u/npalardy)\ **Post date:** [13 March 2024 03:25 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/indieappsales/3854/26 "2024-03-13T03:25:02Z")
Its like watching Stockholm Syndrome in action But I suppose when you are in that camp and dont see any path out its better to talk nice regardless of how you feel and HOPE something gets better Hope does tend to be the last thing humans give up ---
**Author:** ![bkeeney](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/bkeeney/32/225_2.png) [@bkeeney](https://ifnotnil.com/u/bkeeney)\ **Post date:** [13 March 2024 14:07 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/indieappsales/3854/27 "2024-03-13T14:07:47Z")
> [@npalardy](#): > > Hope does tend to be the last thing humans give up Who here didn’t hope Xojo would turn itself around? I know I did for YEARS until I gave up…hope. ---
**Author:** ![HalGumbert](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/halgumbert/32/2198_2.png) [@HalGumbert](https://ifnotnil.com/u/HalGumbert)\ **Post date:** [13 March 2024 14:17 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/indieappsales/3854/28 "2024-03-13T14:17:39Z")
> [@bkeeney](#): > > Who here didn’t hope Xojo would turn itself around? I know I did for YEARS until I gave up…hope. Agreed. Otherwise we all would not have tried to help Geoff. But he didn’t give a crap. But now I hope karma does its job. ---
**Author:** ![bkeeney](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/bkeeney/32/225_2.png) [@bkeeney](https://ifnotnil.com/u/bkeeney)\ **Post date:** [13 March 2024 14:27 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/indieappsales/3854/29 "2024-03-13T14:27:36Z")
> [@HalGumbert](#): > > But now I hope karma does its job. Well, I still have some hope that they turn it around. But I doubt it will happen. People lose their jobs, customers have to scramble to figure out how to continue with their projects, etc. Not good for anyone. But it certainly looks like that’s where this is all headed. ---
**Author:** ![HalGumbert](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/halgumbert/32/2198_2.png) [@HalGumbert](https://ifnotnil.com/u/HalGumbert)\ **Post date:** [13 March 2024 14:29 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/indieappsales/3854/30 "2024-03-13T14:29:12Z")
> [@bkeeney](#): > > People lose their jobs, customers have to scramble to figure out how to continue with their projects, etc. Not good for anyone. That’s ALL on Geoff’s shoulders. ---
**Author:** ![npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/npalardy/32/10_2.png) [@npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/u/npalardy)\ **Post date:** [13 March 2024 15:22 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/indieappsales/3854/31 "2024-03-13T15:22:41Z")
When they decided to stop listening to those folks who WOULD voice their opinion was the start of the long slow descent People who gave a damn about the tool and where it was going were suddenly “trolls” So they’ve ignored the things people asked for long and loud - like bug fix only releases interspersed with feature only release so there were “stable” versions at various points in time instead of “oh you can use this version for those kinds of projects but not those because of bugs in that framework in that version” This has been true since the rapid release model was adopted - like the false starts on renaming everything that were loudly decried in beta version. But they persisted and, as had been predicted, broke many project examples, tutorials, and so much learning material and third party additions - like completely abandoning Web 1.0 and having no upgrade path for projects and NO updates or technical support/fixes for old web 1 projects which forced people to have to rewrite them So many have left. Some vocally Some silently And I think, as has been noted elsewhere, their sales #'s reflect that Is it recoverable ? a giant maaaaayyybe But I dont expect it EDIT : fixed typos “table” changed to “stable” ---
**Author:** ![Jerry-Fritschle](https://ifnotnil.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/j/b5a626/32.png) [@Jerry-Fritschle](https://ifnotnil.com/u/Jerry-Fritschle)\ **Post date:** [13 March 2024 16:13 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/indieappsales/3854/32 "2024-03-13T16:13:35Z")
> [@npalardy](#): > > When they decided to stop listening to those folks who WOULD voice their opinion was the start of the long slow descent Yes. During the API 2 brouhaha, I remember a statement from the company that stated, fairly explicitly, that their beta testers were not representative of their target market. This made my head hurt. ---
**Author:** ![npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/npalardy/32/10_2.png) [@npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/u/npalardy)\ **Post date:** [13 March 2024 16:21 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/indieappsales/3854/33 "2024-03-13T16:21:26Z")
I recall that statement and I think that encouraged a LOT of people to rethink their commitment to Xojo and especially their participation in the beta program ---
**Author:** ![ivan](https://ifnotnil.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/i/df788c/32.png) [@ivan](https://ifnotnil.com/u/ivan)\ **Post date:** [13 March 2024 17:17 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/indieappsales/3854/34 "2024-03-13T17:17:36Z")
> [@Jerry-Fritschle](#): > > Yes. During the API 2 brouhaha, I remember a statement from the company that stated, fairly explicitly, that their beta testers were not representative of their target market. This made my head hurt. If that made your head hurt, then you must have missed the; This is my company and no one is going to tell me how to run it 😅 ---
**Author:** ![npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/npalardy/32/10_2.png) [@npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/u/npalardy)\ **Post date:** [13 March 2024 17:59 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/indieappsales/3854/35 "2024-03-13T17:59:10Z")
> [@ivan](#): > > If that made your head hurt, then you must have missed the; This is my company and no one is going to tell me how to run it 😅 Have to admit that I missed that In a way I wish I hadn’t but I dont recall ever seeing it BUT I have NO doubt that sentiment is exactly how the company is run I think whats missed is that no one is trying to say “you MUST run the company like this” but more “You know if you did this I’d be willing to hand over more money to you & your business” More advice on what things are important to them than anything And we see the results I haven’t paid for a license in a very long time and my clients haven’t as well as they dont see the value in _renewing_ Nor have a number of people I know Anecdotal evidence suggests this sentiment isnt uncommon edit - changed REALLY when it should have been RECALL ---
**Author:** ![bkeeney](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/bkeeney/32/225_2.png) [@bkeeney](https://ifnotnil.com/u/bkeeney)\ **Post date:** [13 March 2024 18:10 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/indieappsales/3854/36 "2024-03-13T18:10:57Z")
> [@npalardy](#): > > I haven’t paid for a license in a very long time and my clients haven’t as well as they dont see the value in _renewing_ I haven’t paid for a license for 4 years. At one point we had 4 pro licenses for BKeeney Software. For the current job we used to have 14 pro licenses that we kept up to date. Now we have 5 and we are sporadic in upgrades. It’s anecdotal evidence, I know, but it seems to be a common theme for a lot of current and former Xojo developers. ---
**Author:** ![Torsten\_B](https://ifnotnil.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/ecae2f/32.png) [@Torsten\_B](https://ifnotnil.com/u/Torsten_B)\ **Post date:** [13 March 2024 19:00 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/indieappsales/3854/37 "2024-03-13T19:00:14Z")
> [@npalardy](#): > > Have to admit that I missed that Here you are: [https://ifnotnil.com/t/xojo-hmmmm/3103/217](https://ifnotnil.com/t/xojo-hmmmm/3103/217) ---
**Author:** ![npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/npalardy/32/10_2.png) [@npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/u/npalardy)\ **Post date:** [13 March 2024 19:13 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/indieappsales/3854/38 "2024-03-13T19:13:22Z")
The overall sentiment is undoubtedly there But no where does he say “dont tell me how to run my company” Either way the sentiment is there & their actions are what counts Watch what they do Actions speak louder than words ---
**Author:** ![Torsten\_B](https://ifnotnil.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/ecae2f/32.png) [@Torsten\_B](https://ifnotnil.com/u/Torsten_B)\ **Post date:** [13 March 2024 20:00 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/indieappsales/3854/39 "2024-03-13T20:00:09Z")
It goes ‘…I report to no one.’ ---
**Author:** ![Jerry-Fritschle](https://ifnotnil.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/j/b5a626/32.png) [@Jerry-Fritschle](https://ifnotnil.com/u/Jerry-Fritschle)\ **Post date:** [13 March 2024 20:14 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/indieappsales/3854/40 "2024-03-13T20:14:46Z")
> [@Torsten\_B](#): > > It goes ‘…I report to no one.’ Your paraphrasing of that was fair. However, care must be taken with quotation marks. I learned that in high school journalism, back in the Pleistocene. 🙂 [Previous page](https://ifnotnil.com/t/indieappsales/3854.md?page=1) [Next page](https://ifnotnil.com/t/indieappsales/3854.md?page=3)