Experiences with B4x

Java
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Yes Norman, personal preference for macOS as development platform is for sure a part of a decision for xojo yes.

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Said perception of profressionalism would not be because one “does not like to work on Windows,” but because one “does not choose the best tool for the job.” The important question is, “Why would a professional developer not choose the best tool for the job?”

Why would a professional handicap himself by refusing to use a Windows-based IDE when it would be better for himself (efficiency/effectiveness/RAD/etc.) and his clients/employer (improved time-to-release, legit cross-platform possibilities, etc.)?

There would seem to be some misplaced or irrational allegiance to a particular platform or aversion to another platform. Neither seems to makes sense these days.

Certainly not. But what would you say about a professional who chooses to develop with a language/IDE that is hobbled by bugs, is laggy, and does not deliver what it promises vs. choosing to develop with a language/IDE that is fast, stable, and fulfills the promise of rapid, cross-platform development?

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63

I didn’t perceive it as condescending, but it wasn’t directed at me (as far as I can tell!).

For someone who wants to develop apps for only one platform, that’s not an issue. For someone who wants to create Mac apps and Windows apps, now you’re having to justify and rationalize decisions that could affect not only your development time but your client’s/employer’s time and money. For someone who wants to make desktop (Mac, Windows, Linux) and mobile apps, you have to do some serious thinking.

I’m developing an app right now with B4X that will be available on all desktops (Mac, Windows, Linux) and both mobile systems (iOS, Android). And it has been rapid and easy. I’m writing the backend server with B4X.

And everything just works.

Even if I was a Mac fanboy, I (hope I) would still do whatever I could to make sure I could develop with B4X.

Xojo attracted me with its promise of cross-platform and mobile app development. Then… well… yikes.

Now that I think about it, I wonder if my experience with Xojo is because I’m on Windows. Is the Xojo experience on Mac that much different from that on Windows? (If that’s a derail, please ignore. :smiley:)

1 Like
64

I work on Macs since Mac OS 6.05, Windows since DOS, and Linux (a bit only). I put together or repaired 600-700 PCs, installed Windows and free CoverCD software, and sold them at cost (or when unemployed for a small profit) as a social hobby. I did computer support for years on the side, mostly for free in my spare time. It is well known that the TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) for Macs is well below that of Windows PCs - just ask IBM. About 8 years ago (?) I told about 40 people they should get a Mac or find another support person - I don’t want to touch another PC if I can avoid it - and that it is no longer ok with me that they try to save some money and I pay for it with my time getting their PCs running again. All but one (a gamer mostly) changed to PCs and the usual I heard after 6-8 weeks of complaining was “Windows? Never again!” (my father was the worst - took him a long time to change his motor memory, but then he was nearly 80). As expected my work load went down dramatically. Just in case you did not know: the IT department of EVERY company that went to Macs had to downsize as they no longer had enough work. The IT Departments know that - so don’t ask them what kind of computer they recommend - or would you destroy your job?

Most Mac users know Windows because they have to use it at work and don’t want it at home. Most Windows users know Macs from an old Mac still running somewhere in a corner (“It’s so sloooow!” - of course, it’s a 15 year old Mac in the corner of the lab running old software on an old plate reader. What do you expect???). Most Mac users use Macs because they know Windows … but Windows users without Mac experience label them “fan boys”. How ignorant can you get?

It is well known that Xojo works a LOT better on Macs than on Windows, and I’ve said for years that Xojo for Windows needs some urgent attention as it has become pretty much a horrible experience to develop on Windows. Just compare Xojo’s Mac graphics with their system provided double buffering to the horrible Windows graphics.

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I was hoping you wouldn’t take that out of context. But you did. Ah, well.

I could have easily said, and it would have been just as true: “Even if I was a Windows fanboy, and the best language/IDE was only available on an Apple OS, I would do everything I could to make sure I could use that app on that Apple Mac.”

That was not targeted at you or anybody else here. My point was, an OS is not going to stop me from using the best tool for the job I have to do.

Ah… OK. That’s good news for Mac-only devs. :smile:

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66

@MarkusWinter you totally ignore the fact that there are many programs which are not available for Mac computers so there are many networks where using Mac is impossible. Beside the horrible performance of parallels not every app can run on it before you’ll speak about it.

The tco of Mac is not under all circumstances winning against pc, you should know that. We have Linux systems which bringing up the evidence every day. Sorry but I can not accept if somebody blows up Mac in that wise cause the fact is there is no change to use it for example in all medical environments. Beginning with missing 60601 certificates which you can not get for Mac cause it would have been produced for it.

There is no holy grale named Mac and no grale named xojo. Even on Mac the performance of xojo apps is like a shit and not even comparable to the performance of b4j apps. Writing database application for massive data transfers is impossible cause of really shitty interfaces.

I am not the one which is the most intelligent one, I am even not a computer scientist and I stupidly studied mathematics and physics. But one thing I can. See that xojo is not bringing up the needed performance at all.

And another thing: before you speak like you do please think about professionalism. Programming for one platform is also testing in it and not in parallels only. You forget byself thermostat important rule. I think that should be clear for everybody.

If you want to fight in a discussion okay. But not in this thread where we are speaking about our customers experience with b4x and not about your holy grale xojo and Mac. We want and need cross platform and xojo has not. Even now the m1 is not running completely as target. With java it is natively running.

Persons like you which are consuming and praying what apple and xojo say are not the midpoint of development. And for me it is not helping if you believe that Mac and xojo are better: I had to rewrite cause xojo was dead end if you forgot I wrote even in this thread. So where is the professionalism? There is none on your site when you decide for others and have no idea of their situation and needs.

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67

One of the absolutely fantastic things about B4X are the example projects that Erel supplies.
Pretty much every thread on the forum reaches a solution too, I’ve noticed. It might may take you a while to find the right thread but it’s almost always there. When it’s not ask a question and it will be answered.
I am a not very good programmer but I’ve been able to write a webserver that’s providing solutions for my customers with B4X starting out from a point of cluelessness not long ago. I haven’t used Alain’s ABMaterial or Banano yet, just some simple html and css and B4J on the server. I did it this way because I felt I needed to understand how things fit together before trying those out. I think with those I can take it to a very professional level. B4X is rock solid.

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68

This is a very good attitude and will benefit you greatly if you decide to go ahead especially with BANano as this transpiles B4J code to JavaScript. Understanding the HTML/CSS part will speed up writing the interaction with them, or in other words, the process of writing the JavaScript ‘glue’ stuff.

Alwaysbusy

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Thanks Alain
Banano looks very interesting and I am looking forward very much to trying it out in the near future, hopefully.

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70

Even for me as a Vaadin / Java Programmer using Cuba Platform Banano looks really interesting. Everything what is needed can be builded with it even PWA. And for larger projects there is still ABMaterial. Nice at all.