But it emphasises that not everyone will have a painless journey into B4 …
Can you show me a development tool that gives us a painless journy? 
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There is no Change without the pain of learning. When learning Xojo you also have a documentation which tells you only small partts but not all of it. Makes it not better. The difference? Yes when used Xojo for years you are used to Xojo. When I started with C I had to learn, later C++ was the same effect. When Java came up I had to learn and when Xojo became interesting for use for Webapps for IOT Devices I had again to learn. And I had to learn that xojo has a policy for updating and deprecating where is no chance for Support an application for future use. Web 1.0 Apps are not up to date at the moment and web 2.0 is not running in a professional level, So yes there will be the pain of learning. But you will have for this price a broad range of solutions you can build up with it. In my Eyes a not so high price. Even if I am building my Webapps on Base of Webswing and Vaadin (depends on Situation and on the Needs around a device) I see that B4x is a real nice environment which I can say it is a professional Level of programming with it. More I never wanted to say.
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He just stated facts, If you think it is an attack to Xojo, well, looks like the emotionally connected with a producto is just projecting itself.
When you say things like:
“The vast majority are more than happy with the Xojo product”
“The latest releases of Xojo have been pretty decent and the next upcoming release is a biggie full of new features.”
Is that a joke? That sounds familiar…
“Xojo is still here after decades”, barelly. Xojo had a unique niche that could be exploited really big. Too bad the CEO was to blind to listen to people and make the product a great success. Lots and lots of nonsense changes instead of features, the always beta releases, the “shut up, no one is going to tell me how to run my company”… that has drove away many BIG users, one of them, @Alwaysbusy, he was a big evangelist until he got sick of the nonsense changes instead of features.
And again, that is not an attack, this are just facts. B4X is only a couple years old an is already on the TIOBE Index, and Xojo IS NOT.
I still use Xojo (2019.21) No API 2, for mantaining my windows apps. B4A for Android, B4i for doing iOS in my WINDOWS PC and B4J for reliable and multithreaded Web services.
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I found this before, but many of the internal libraries don’t have xml files.
That makes no sense. As mentioned before, there is no such thing as “points”. The tool has only one source and the posts by Erel, when a new way arrives, are edited to include AT THE TOP a link to the new tutorial. When using the search function just filter by date.
3rd party libs are the same than in any other tools, each user is responsible for them, maybe you are confused there.
Internal libraries are in the instalation path, have you tried looking for the XML files there?
C:\Program Files (x86)\Anywhere Software\Basic4android\Libraries
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Rude is your Reply DaveK. Maybe it will fit to the other forum. But here we are used to speak out loud when real problems exist. And xojo Problems are existing. That makes no fanboy to a better human. When working with Xojo I have only bugs over Bugs and Framework Problems I would never have to handle with C++ or Java and even not with B4J. I am not married with a Language. But I do not like if a vendor - like in this case Xojo - is running out a Product which barely would get the state beta in my company. When now you are speaking about a rude comment from alwaysbusy I have to ask you: why? It was not rude and not agressive. He spoke only the trues behind. He was a real xojo Fan and was long term working with Xojo. Stopping this was not a decision of monay payd by another vendor. Stopping was a must do because of the problems you run in when professinally programming with xojo. So min my View your comment is rude and shows agressive thinkings. Let the people use the software they want to use.
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Yes, you are right. The open source .b4xlib libraries do not have an .xml file. May be a good idea for me (or someone else) to write something for that.
Nice! 
But to be correct, it is already mature for about a decade.
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Lol. The TIOBE index is garbage and is open to spamming as it use search engine queries to determine the ‘popularity’ of a language. Seriously anyone mentioning TIOBE should be laughed at - just Google what nonsense that index is.
Says the rudest person on here and the Xojo forums.
Oh no, sorry, I am not the rudest person. I am rude when it terrifies my right for a complete, reliable and functional product and I find out, that the only reaction is nothing. There is a big difference. Whenever I say something in a rude wise I have exactly this fundamental view behind. I will never be rude when there is no fundamental issue behind. Why should I. I think you could be so nice and tell me where my comment is rude. I guess it will be hard to describe if and when you will not forget about the facts behind.
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And yet, your beloved Xojo was SO proud they made the list in 2014 being kicked out shortly after, making a short return in 2019. So I guess you can now go back TOF and start making fun of them 
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The pissing matches can stop
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I think that he really should think about his manors and stop to write in this wise. Calls me rude but is arguing in a complete rude wise. The official forum is the place for fanboys. Here we want to discuss the topic and not his meaning of xojo is the best. It is not. Not here in this forum. Because the need for this forum was that critical voices in xojo forum made still by warnings or banning. With that method everybody knows that speaking trues let’s you find the exit from the forum. In this need ifnotnil was founded to have a place to really discuss and not to fulfill the vendors whooshes.
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I agree. And that ifnotnil works was proven in a message I had from Erel earlier this day where he mentioned that, thanks to this topic, the “search Tips” post on his forum was a direct result. We can only wish more platform vendors do the same and really listen to the users. And this forum is a great meeting place.
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That would be me, but I didn’t say anything … 
But this is about experiences with B4x, not a cock fight between B4x and Xojo, so eff off to your own thread!
[how’s that for being rude? 
]
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Stop thinking of cocks. Stating that B4X has a bigger comunity, has more hits on search engines, has more out of the box functionality, real code sharing beetween mobile, desktop and web, etc, etc is not a fight, it IS sharing the B4x experience 
And a hint to xojo while a perfect solution would be if xojo has that kind of abilities
mmmm, wow, I am amazed by the replies, ok I suppose I was still the only person to answer the OP.
B4X is a great great product, there is absolutely no dispute in my mind, and the post I made to answer Marcus was an honest version of experience UP TO THIS POINT AND IN REPLY TO HIS QUESTION, a very early foray into the product with absolutely no intention to have any sort of definitive opinion nor overriding and forthright view that is intended to influence anyone.
this forum is intended as far as I know, to allow informed opinion to flourish, and if option is clearly bogus, mis-directed or outright malicious then it can be opposed.
if, Alaine, the opinion I expressed is seen as ill informed (reference ABM), attacking or non constructive then I can do nothing but apologise, but that was not the intention in any way, your work is exemplary.
but please allow some one who is completely new to all your work have an opinion, that you are no longer able to fathom due to familiarity, a new user into your domain may see many things that are not visible to a long term user.
it is obvious that the comparisons to xojo were taken out of context.
but what I have now realised, me deciding to jump into the B4 and deciding that I will accept that a windows based experience is good enough is, to be honest, not good enough.
windows is for me a foreign country, filled with hoops and road bumps that neither make sense not are acceptable.
I now have decided that the B4 path for WEB is is absolutely not the path to go, if there was a B4W then I might try it out, and stick with it.
having to download this, install that, piss about with the other, is not for me.
for me now I will either find the ide/compiler suiting me or just not bother with it at all.
I want to have a B4W version or a xojo version of web that you download as a product, you do not have to f**k about with dependencies, external components, needing to install components, blah blah blah.
this is where I am now https://www.spiderbasic.com
I don’t care what stuff goes on in the back ground, I don’t care the core technology, I do not care if its the fastest, most efficient or free(which is never a good thing), I just want to use a tool that makes an app that does what I want it to.
but that’s just me, enjoy whatever code you use.
Mark
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I’m sure some long time Xojo users suffer from the same kind of forgetfulness and have long forgotten any of the foibles that newbies encounter
For my money THIS is where Xojo is spot on
I like that I can download it and use it ASAP
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