CEO's taking part

I don’t know many companies, where you can see the CEO taking part actively in the forums.
That’s for sure a good thing!

There are 2 on here that I know of
@Erel and @dwarfland


Indeed, and they often provide real solutions instead of just doing damage control like Geoff

@Erel and @dwarfland are CEO and developer of the product in a very hands on deep way

I don’t know the context of this topic but I do appreciate Geoff engaging with customers. However I do feel like he’s often leading from behind (I.e. damage control). I’d suggest starting topics more often. Asking people in a topic that he starts “what are the deal killer bugs?” Or maybe “what are your thoughts about X feature?” Or “I just read this article on the future of web development, what can we do to move in that direction?” Etc. This is the Geoff you’ll meet at a conference. He should share that side of himself more often. Basically, be more open and spitball with the rabble.

It’s great that other CEO’s take part. Definitely makes those products more compelling too.

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I’d love to see more engagement with users asking them beforehand what they think about things long before they decide to just do them and live with the fallout

Often you do see Geoff respond that “the average user…” or “most users…”
I dont recall any surveys or any questionnaire EVER asking me any questions about what do I think of feature X or possible feature Y.

Do you ?


Nope. Never a formal survey unless it went to the spam folder. But he does do that at conferences. He’s very open and engaging in that setting.

Let’s run the simulation. What if, at the end of the Xojo 2020r1 test cycle, Geoff had hopped on the Tester group and said “It looks like we’re going to wrap this up. Here are the items we’re deferring until the next release… I want to get this out so folks can get started on their projects. What I’m interested in right now are deal killer bugs”

Would he get blasted by some? Yeah, of course. Thorsten in particular. And he could have addressed Thorsten in that non-customer facing forum. Could Thorsten then turn around and complain on public thread? Sure, but if it was already addressed in the Tester forum he looks like a huge asshole. And the reply from Geoff could have simply been “I hear what you’re saying and I addressed this with you last week.” Period. Done. Close the thread.

Like I said in another topic. I feel like the Tester thread needs more dialogue. But I’ll drop it. That’s just me I guess.

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you dont say ??? :stuck_out_tongue:

they did that and it was way too late
People reacted as you’d expect “OMG you can’t be seriously going to ship like this !” etc etc etc

Yeah it would be nice to see Testers used more as a place to throw out ideas and dicsuss them
Thats not how they’ve chosen to do things and have 5 MVPs they bounce ideas past which, IMHO, is WAY too small a group and not enough diverse experience in the apps they create etc to be able to be really useful

Yes, I saw that thread. It’s what made me think we need more of it. I feel like it allowed a lot of folks to vent. His particular question did invite more criticism. I think ending with “deal killer bugs” is a much smaller pool of issues to contend with. And he needs to take the conversation full circle. In that instance I’d thank everyone for their input then admit that “it looks like a number of projects aren’t going to be able to convert with this first version. I’d like to get it out for those that can. We’re going to work on having a tight cycle in the fall and get most of the issues addressed in the next release.”

I’m not suggestion that communication is the only issues. Folks do have legitimate concerns about the way bugs are or aren’t handled. But it’s a big piece of the pie. The fact that the Tester group has no idea when the release will happen is stultifying. Why does it just suddenly drop? I can’t wrap my head around why that’s the approach.

TBH that message MIGHT have assuaged a lot of the issues Testers had to at least see their concerns were heard
Carrying through on this would have been the next thing

Mostly because they were / are trying to encourage people to test early and often
I can say that sometimes it would seem no one else tried anything until Final Candidate was posted and then a flood of bug reports would some in - probably ones that had they come in before this they’d have been dealt with for the release.
I think they even said as much when they decided to alter how this was all done (or maybe in the videos?)

I understand that goal - I dont necessarily agree with how to best get people to test early & often as it is a big time sink with no payback for testers
There’s no recognition of the vast amounts of time spend doing that testing
A discount because you submitted X many bug reports during beta or something , anything as recognition would go a long way
This too isnt new and has been suggested nearly 15 years ago and never acted upon

Easy-peasy. Have that conversation earlier.

Tuesday: “We’re looking to wrap it up on Friday”

flood of bug reports

Thursday: “Ok, looking through the recent bug reports I think we’ll keep cooking this bird a few more weeks”

I’m sure there is / was something that could have been done but saying nothing was not my choice
That was above my pay grade :stuck_out_tongue:

I think we can admit that the people who get to the conferences are a particular subset of of Xojo users, who have paid a great deal of money to be there.
Not that this is in any way to disparage them - they are primarily the most respected forum members.
But is there a tiny chance that a Xojo conference is a bit of an echo chamber?

I can say that sometimes it would seem no one else tried anything until Final Candidate was posted and then a flood of bug reports would some in

Same everywhere. :wink: