# Account suspended: No constructive purpose to their actions other than creating dissent within the community **URL:** \ **Category:** Other\ **Created:** [13 June 2022 20:04 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/account-suspended-no-constructive-purpose-to-their-actions-other-than-creating-dissent-within-the-community/2560 "2022-06-13T20:04:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Karen](https://ifnotnil.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@Karen](https://ifnotnil.com/u/Karen)\ **Post date:** [16 June 2022 18:47 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/account-suspended-no-constructive-purpose-to-their-actions-other-than-creating-dissent-within-the-community/2560/123 "2022-06-16T18:47:30Z")
> [@MonkeybreadSoftware](#): > > I doubt that Geoff actually works in engineering It looks like he is doing a significant amount of coding of some kind: > **[Sending Text Messages From Xojo Apps – Xojo Programming Blog](https://blog.xojo.com/2022/06/13/texting-yourself-from-your-xojo-app/)** ---
**Author:** ![MonkeybreadSoftware](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/monkeybreadsoftware/32/451_2.png) [@MonkeybreadSoftware](https://ifnotnil.com/u/MonkeybreadSoftware)\ **Post date:** [16 June 2022 18:50 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/account-suspended-no-constructive-purpose-to-their-actions-other-than-creating-dissent-within-the-community/2560/124 "2022-06-16T18:50:17Z")
Yes, the little app to move the Feedback cases. ---
**Author:** ![anon72844311](https://ifnotnil.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@anon72844311](https://ifnotnil.com/u/anon72844311)\ **Post date:** [16 June 2022 20:52 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/account-suspended-no-constructive-purpose-to-their-actions-other-than-creating-dissent-within-the-community/2560/125 "2022-06-16T20:52:28Z")
> [@HalGumbert](#): > > That’s silly. I’m speechless, he pays someone X grand a month so he can babysit it himself? > [@HalGumbert](#): > > If staff are acting on their own, that’s a huge red flag. It’s what grown ups do, delegation. > [@Karen](#): > > It looks like he is doing a significant amount of coding of some kind: Yup, it’s called freeing up engineers so they can work on bugs instead of them writing internal apps that noone will see but are actually really important as one will actually make documentation better and the other will migrate away from the abomination that was feedback. Or at least that’s how I see it, positive direction from Geoff. I’m sure some here will have a different spin on it though… because Geoff can never do anything right, right? ---
**Author:** ![npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/npalardy/32/10_2.png) [@npalardy](https://ifnotnil.com/u/npalardy)\ **Post date:** [16 June 2022 21:30 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/account-suspended-no-constructive-purpose-to-their-actions-other-than-creating-dissent-within-the-community/2560/126 "2022-06-16T21:30:44Z")
> [@anon72844311](#): > > It’s what grown ups do, delegation. abdication of leadership ≠ delegation Trust me thee’s huge difference in what you think is happening and what I experienced What I find amusing is this thread on a NON-Xojo controlled site has had more chatter in its short existence than MOST threads ON their forums do now Suspending Markus for \_ No constructive purpose to their actions other than creating dissent within the community\_ seems to have fractured it even more And here we are talking about it ON a site set up because of Xojo’s actions > [@Welcome to If Not Nil](https://ifnotnil.com/t/welcome-to-if-not-nil/7): > > If Not Nil, affectionately known as INN, is a place to learn about and discuss cross-platform app development, primarily using (but not limited to) the [Xojo](https://xojo.com) programming language. The aim of this site is to become the best community on the Web to help developers build apps for any platform, be it macOS, Linux, Windows, iOS or Android. We hope it also serves as a useful place to seek feedback and encouragement on projects that you have worked on or are currently working on. These projects can be … Try and have THIS conversation there Irony anyone ? ---
**Author:** ![Karen](https://ifnotnil.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@Karen](https://ifnotnil.com/u/Karen)\ **Post date:** [16 June 2022 22:10 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/account-suspended-no-constructive-purpose-to-their-actions-other-than-creating-dissent-within-the-community/2560/127 "2022-06-16T22:10:33Z")
> [@anon72844311](#): > > because Geoff can never do anything right, right? I would not say never… but i will say it seems to me many if not most of the major decisions Xojo Inc has made from about the time of the change from REALStudio to Xojo, are things I am not very happy about. -Karen ---
**Author:** ![thorstenstueker](https://ifnotnil.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/aca169/32.png) [@thorstenstueker](https://ifnotnil.com/u/thorstenstueker)\ **Post date:** [17 June 2022 05:51 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/account-suspended-no-constructive-purpose-to-their-actions-other-than-creating-dissent-within-the-community/2560/128 "2022-06-17T05:51:48Z")
If you would be experienced enough in controlling a company as a CEO you would no that your words are not making a real sense. Geoff is not freeing engineers at all. What he does was writing within weeks - xojo declared that this job was costing long te to switch especially to write the application - a small application which needed days over days to migrate the cases. We have experience with this kind of projects and migratet much bigger data amounts. Was not costing weeks but a few days to write and movement was done within a few hours for a few million cases. The move was not real needed,feedback was a running system. But writing web feedback in xojo was impossible. So that there is no need to declare this painful fact they defined it as better to Seattle on a new bug tracker. I can understand that but it is not freeing engineers at all. There are solutions, even radical solutions for marketing problems. But Bugfixes for major bugs are missed. Like Android. ---
**Author:** ![Alwaysbusy](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/alwaysbusy/32/894_2.png) [@Alwaysbusy](https://ifnotnil.com/u/Alwaysbusy)\ **Post date:** [17 June 2022 06:15 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/account-suspended-no-constructive-purpose-to-their-actions-other-than-creating-dissent-within-the-community/2560/129 "2022-06-17T06:15:24Z")
This constant bickering just confirms our decision to move away from Xojo five years ago was absolutely the right decision for our company. These conversations have nothing to do with ‘passion’ anymore but are only a reflection of an increasing division among its users, mainly caused by Xojo Inc. itself. > [@thorstenstueker](#): > > We have experience with this kind of projects and migratet much bigger data amounts. Was not costing weeks but a few days to write and movement was done within a few hours for a few million cases. I had exactly the same sentiment when I read their post it took over a week to move such a relatively small amount of data. Or the developer wrote a very inefficient piece of code, or the data was such a mess the migration almost had to be done manually. Or, and maybe even more plausible, the dev wanted it to look like it was an extremely ‘hard’ and ‘huge’ task, something novice users are probably very impressed with but seasoned devs see right through. ---
**Author:** ![thorstenstueker](https://ifnotnil.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/aca169/32.png) [@thorstenstueker](https://ifnotnil.com/u/thorstenstueker)\ **Post date:** [17 June 2022 08:10 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/account-suspended-no-constructive-purpose-to-their-actions-other-than-creating-dissent-within-the-community/2560/130 "2022-06-17T08:10:04Z")
Since string handling in xojo is really slow and database connectors even slower it is a huge problem to use xojo for big data amounts. Therefore it makes from my point of view no sense to develop xojo desktop apps. Why? While it is dramatically slower than java to handle the data amounts. And often not stable. That makes zero usability for cases like that. Like proved by xojo. When migrating 6.9 million cases with image converting we tried to use xojo and it failed. I believe Norman can remember. ---
**Author:** ![anon72844311](https://ifnotnil.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@anon72844311](https://ifnotnil.com/u/anon72844311)\ **Post date:** [17 June 2022 08:12 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/account-suspended-no-constructive-purpose-to-their-actions-other-than-creating-dissent-within-the-community/2560/131 "2022-06-17T08:12:22Z")
> [@Alwaysbusy](#): > > These conversations have nothing to do with ‘passion’ anymore but are only a reflection of an increasing division among its users, mainly caused by Xojo Inc. itself. Around 10 of the usual suspects having a chat out of their whole userbase? Maybe its just like those perfectly fine amazon products where the reviews have a low star rating because the 0.01% of disgruntled customers leave the most comments where as the vast majority of user just get on with it and are fine but don’t leave a comment? > [@Alwaysbusy](#): > > I had exactly the same sentiment when I read their post it took over a week to move such a relatively small amount of data. Or the developer wrote a very inefficient piece of code, or the data was such a mess the migration almost had to be done manually. Or, and maybe even more plausible, the dev wanted it to look like it was an extremely ‘hard’ and ‘huge’ task, something novice users are probably very impressed with but seasoned devs see right through. Lets wait and see what comes out of his xdc presentation on the process, ooooo its like the run up to Christmas 😉 I’m betting that hit rates, server performance an distance came into it somewhere, but what do I know, I’ll wait and find out, exciting 🙂 ![Inglorious Bastards GIFs | Tenor](https://ifnotnil.com/uploads/default/original/2X/0/0b31a25beaec31c73cd2ef360640cf4321f0975f.gif) ---
**Author:** ![anon72844311](https://ifnotnil.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@anon72844311](https://ifnotnil.com/u/anon72844311)\ **Post date:** [17 June 2022 08:21 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/account-suspended-no-constructive-purpose-to-their-actions-other-than-creating-dissent-within-the-community/2560/132 "2022-06-17T08:21:41Z")
> [@thorstenstueker](#): > > Geoff is not freeing engineers at all. > [@thorstenstueker](#): > > The move was not real needed,feedback was a running system. But writing web feedback in xojo was impossible. So that there is no need to declare this painful fact they defined it as better to Seattle on a new bug tracker. I can understand that but it is not freeing engineers at all. So he freed up people from working on feedback web 2.0, freed up people from writing the migration tools but he didn’t free up anyone? Oh you seem to think that feedback was ok, with all those bugs and no real way to narrow down what people really need fixing? Crystal clear, got it, thanks for the insight. ---
**Author:** ![thorstenstueker](https://ifnotnil.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/aca169/32.png) [@thorstenstueker](https://ifnotnil.com/u/thorstenstueker)\ **Post date:** [17 June 2022 08:27 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/account-suspended-no-constructive-purpose-to-their-actions-other-than-creating-dissent-within-the-community/2560/133 "2022-06-17T08:27:46Z")
Web 2.0 is not able to be the host for web feedback. That was the problem. The code reuse of only writing the UI and the session coding would not be the big deal. If it would be possible. Reading and understanding helps to get what I said.turning it around is not working. ---
**Author:** ![anon72844311](https://ifnotnil.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@anon72844311](https://ifnotnil.com/u/anon72844311)\ **Post date:** [17 June 2022 08:28 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/account-suspended-no-constructive-purpose-to-their-actions-other-than-creating-dissent-within-the-community/2560/134 "2022-06-17T08:28:28Z")
> [@thorstenstueker](#): > > Reading and understanding helps to get what I said.turning it around is not working. Yeah that’s probably part of the problem Seattle, but unfortunately if you say one thing (not freeing up people) and it is, then that is an issue with the post? Maybe type in your native language and I’ll translate it at this end? ---
**Author:** ![anon72844311](https://ifnotnil.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@anon72844311](https://ifnotnil.com/u/anon72844311)\ **Post date:** [17 June 2022 08:30 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/account-suspended-no-constructive-purpose-to-their-actions-other-than-creating-dissent-within-the-community/2560/135 "2022-06-17T08:30:19Z")
> [@thorstenstueker](#): > > Web 2.0 is not able to be the host for web feedback. That was the problem. The code reuse of only writing the UI and the session coding would not be the big deal. If it would be possible. Oh I knew that within minutes of the first public release of web 2.0 to testers, simple things, glaring things that would have been needed for feedback 2.0 were simply not working and would probably have been found and fixed if feedback 2.0 was actually being developed side by side with web 2.0. But who knows, maybe it was but they just didn’t see the massive glaring issues due to tunnel vision when working on things. ---
**Author:** ![MarkusWinter](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/markuswinter/32/32_2.png) [@MarkusWinter](https://ifnotnil.com/u/MarkusWinter)\ **Post date:** [17 June 2022 08:37 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/account-suspended-no-constructive-purpose-to-their-actions-other-than-creating-dissent-within-the-community/2560/136 "2022-06-17T08:37:33Z")
Julian, you DO notice that you have moved from trying to deflect the argument to denigrating the “opposition” for unrelated things (like not being a native speaker)? Sorry, for me you just lost the argument in a big way. I’m happy to call people and be called an idiot if I say something stupid - but I don’t think I have ever stooped down to denigrate someone for not being a native speaker. P.S. The “worst” I did was recommend deepL (which is a fantastic translator that I use a lot). ---
**Author:** ![anon72844311](https://ifnotnil.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@anon72844311](https://ifnotnil.com/u/anon72844311)\ **Post date:** [17 June 2022 08:42 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/account-suspended-no-constructive-purpose-to-their-actions-other-than-creating-dissent-within-the-community/2560/137 "2022-06-17T08:42:05Z")
You are confused Markus, I’m not denigrating someone, I’m agreeing with them that there might be a language barrier in my understanding of his issue… can’t see that though can you? Take a pop at me, I’m not really bothered, whatever cheers you up. ---
**Author:** ![MarkusWinter](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/markuswinter/32/32_2.png) [@MarkusWinter](https://ifnotnil.com/u/MarkusWinter)\ **Post date:** [17 June 2022 08:42 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/account-suspended-no-constructive-purpose-to-their-actions-other-than-creating-dissent-within-the-community/2560/138 "2022-06-17T08:42:59Z")
> [@Bad\_Wolf](#): > > But I tell you, Markus Winter, people will see through your facade and see the little guy you really are. > > […] So let us make sure it stays that way by respecting our fellow members here even when we totally disagree with each other. > > Respect is earned, not coming for free. You would be more convincing if you wouldn’t contradict yourself immediately … 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♀️ ---
**Author:** ![Varandor](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/varandor/32/2971_2.png) [@Varandor](https://ifnotnil.com/u/Varandor)\ **Post date:** [17 June 2022 08:53 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/account-suspended-no-constructive-purpose-to-their-actions-other-than-creating-dissent-within-the-community/2560/139 "2022-06-17T08:53:02Z")
I dont think my stomach can take anymore popcorn now 🤪 😂 ---
**Author:** ![anon72844311](https://ifnotnil.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@anon72844311](https://ifnotnil.com/u/anon72844311)\ **Post date:** [17 June 2022 08:53 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/account-suspended-no-constructive-purpose-to-their-actions-other-than-creating-dissent-within-the-community/2560/140 "2022-06-17T08:53:31Z")
You and me both mate. ---
**Author:** ![Alwaysbusy](https://ifnotnil.com/user_avatar/ifnotnil.com/alwaysbusy/32/894_2.png) [@Alwaysbusy](https://ifnotnil.com/u/Alwaysbusy)\ **Post date:** [17 June 2022 09:03 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/account-suspended-no-constructive-purpose-to-their-actions-other-than-creating-dissent-within-the-community/2560/141 "2022-06-17T09:03:21Z")
> [@anon72844311](#): > > Maybe its just like those perfectly fine amazon products No sorry, nothing like it. Calling Xojo ‘perfectly fine’ is a huge overstatement. Something you seem to be also aware of a couple of months ago. I always valued your posts because of its honesty (the good AND the bad). Keep doing that. > [@anon72844311](#): > > Lets wait and see what comes out of his xdc presentation on the process, ooooo its like the run up to Christmas 😉 If it is anything like the XDC Anywhere keynote, I wouldn’t get to excited 😉 Pretty obvious stuff you mention to take into account when doing a migration. Maybe planning went wrong and they encountered these things while doing it? Rookie mistake if they did… ---
**Author:** ![anon72844311](https://ifnotnil.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@anon72844311](https://ifnotnil.com/u/anon72844311)\ **Post date:** [17 June 2022 09:10 UTC](https://ifnotnil.com/t/account-suspended-no-constructive-purpose-to-their-actions-other-than-creating-dissent-within-the-community/2560/142 "2022-06-17T09:10:20Z")
> [@Alwaysbusy](#): > > No sorry, nothing like it. Calling Xojo ‘perfectly fine’ is a huge overstatement. Sorry, yes the amazon product is “perfectly fine”. But xojo can be perfectly fine for some things. [Previous page](https://ifnotnil.com/t/account-suspended-no-constructive-purpose-to-their-actions-other-than-creating-dissent-within-the-community/2560.md?page=6) [Next page](https://ifnotnil.com/t/account-suspended-no-constructive-purpose-to-their-actions-other-than-creating-dissent-within-the-community/2560.md?page=8)